Dear Relic, can I have a word please? (Russian history)

To be honest I am down right ashamed of relic. This was a huge mistake on their part and it absolutely ruined the campaign for me... I mean who skips the battle of kursk. tsk tsk relic

True true

So you want to tell me that the Russian Federation today does not try to help the rest of the world?
To be honest this is not a discussion for this forums but I shall continue until some admin doesnt close this thread.
You really believe the Germans do something for the past 70 years just to pay off the crimes their father did during WW2? Honestly? Look at Europe as a whole, who does all the decisions? Your precious Germans.... where do they put the opinions of the other European countries? Up their asses. Why do you think Britain thinks of leaving EU? Cause Germany already controls EU, you can`t even fart without their permission. I live in EU, Cyprus to be exact, we felt the German control on us with the deposit cut. Russia wanted to help Cyprus, but your precious Germans didn`t allow it. Why do you think that happens?
Cause Germany knows Russia is their number one enemy. And their lovely president only throws shit on Russians, modern propaganda on how Russians are so bad and how we are all mafiozi and we only know how to steal, like Germany is a pure country.
But as I said no matter how much shit you throw at us we will endure. You are welcome to my house as long as you come with no bad intentions but if I see you come to oppress me, you will have a bad life ahead of you.

Just wow. no words for how fucking stupid this is.

Though I will end my involvement in this thread by pointing out that the reason Germany runs the EU is because the German taxpayer pays for the EU and your precious Cypriots/Greeks would be fucked beyond belief without the bailout of the Germans.

And what do the Germans get in return for this selflessness? the same old bullshit Nazi labels for merely insisting that the Greeks spend their bailout money constructively and not pissing it away and making the same mistakes again.

Though I will end my involvement in this thread by pointing out that the reason Germany runs the EU is because the German taxpayer pays for the EU and your precious Cypriots/Greeks would be fucked beyond belief without the bailout of the Germans.

So you implying that the whole EU is filled with lazy people who live on the money of
the German taxpayers? This is the most stupid thing someone could possibly say.
Go check where Germany actually gets their money. Export -> profit !!!! Not a single country has the same income as Germany on exports. This is why EU and a single currency for it was the biggest mistake. Everyone knows that, it makes sense. Greece and Cyprus as well as Spain , Italy and France cannot compare with Germany on the export side of the economy. I am not criticizing the German people but its government.
While you simply go and accuse every European as people who don`t want to lift their asses up to work.

Also the bailout is not a method to save a country from crisis, it just makes it worse.

Don't exaggerate his statements, man. He didn't say everyone else was lazy.

The Greeks has some serious holes in their social policies (especially for retirement) which the rest of the EU suffered for, as well. It was a bad economic decision, you can blame the government, but not the Greek people. Other countries, such as Spain, had economic holes in their countries as well, and are suffering the consequences. They were mistakes, for the most part, not laziness (Spain had the largets tourist industry before, remember?).

It is a fact that Germany carries the Euro on their shoulders, but NOT the European Union. The European Union is much more than just the coin. Germany has a lot of money for several reasons: they have always had a strong industrial infrastructure, and they are very, very organized as a culture (Germanic cultures in general, come from a tradition of being very organized. Sometimes too much).

This has nothing to do with Nazism, or the Third Reich in general. It has to do with merits the Germans, and a lot of European countries, have earned through hard work and dedication (Both World War's provided some hard lessons in that respect).

I am not very knowledgeable about Russia, or Eastern European countries as a whole, but I have met people form those countries. None of them strike me as "heartless". I can honestly say they had colder demeanor to them (I live near the Caribbean, everyone is all friendly and joyful here in comparison ), but they were very professional and hard working.

The point of the CoH2 story was not to portray the Soviets are bad. In fact, one of the many quotes in the game is "We did what was necessary". That is arguably true, to the extent that without all those deaths and sacrifices, the war could have lasted A LOT longer, and perhaps not in the way we expect it to.

The point of CoH2's story, is to portray that even if that sacrifice was necessary to achieve victory, there is a price to it. All sides in the war paid that price to some extent.

The point of CoH2's story, is to portray that even if that sacrifice was necessary to achieve victory, there is a price to it. All sides in the war paid that price to some extent.

I agree with you here, I never defended the atrocities the Red Army has done. Everyone did,
as I said from the start its just a game, no one should care how they portray the Soviets or Ostheer. I just tried to explain why they have done what they have done to the German nation. I believe everyone would have done the same given the suffering those soldiers had while fighting.

As for the Eastern people, we might look cold and heartless but inside we are fluffy and we just need a hug.

I havent played CoH2's campaign yet so I cant and wont comment on its quality and presenation but -

Maybe the whole uproar is also caused by the big change of tone / presentation.

Maybe people would be more acceptable if vCoH just didnt take such a "glorified" or lighthearted look at the Western Front.

Maybe more people would actually okey with CoH2 if vCoH also featured stuff like full scale Allied Carpet Bombing, liberation of Deathcamps and execution of Warprisioners ( on both sides ).
vCoHs whole theme was just very different, less (over?) dramatic.

But Im convinced If CoH2 would get a German campaign it would be alot grimmer than its vCoH counterpart.

But campaign shows us only this side of the coin.

No. The campaign shows us war. And just that. And in that it is no more or less "nazi" than it was in the first game. It has no intention to look at "other sides" of the coin, because these are irrelevant.

If these other sides of the coin are so important to you, why don't you do a well researched documentary and post it on you tube? Gives you something to do instead of whining incessantly on forums. You'd also would be able to get through to the appropriate people directly, those that would be interested in this.

http://www.vg247.com/2009/04/27/report-konami-drop-six-days-in-fallujah/ it's just a game

... I just tried to explain why they have done what they have done to the German nation. ...

What do you mean?

High heavens forbid that we get a darker, more grim story in in coh2 that takes some of the bad into account as well. Clearly we should stick to glorified censored story telling! (holding up a massive sarcasm sign here).

Game studios should be free to design a game as they visualize it, without having to make sure they that some overly proud people are offended. I get that the russians would like a glorified hero campaign like the ones from vcoh, but guess what - new game - new angle. Personally I enjoy the more realistic feeling of it.

So what if a lot of people, wearing the smallest shoes in the world are offended? Based on something they aren't willing to talk about and something that is downright censored. I have no beef with the russians at all, but I don't give shit for the sense of entitlement shown when you take a stand and declare that the moral of your army and government 50 years ago is not to be debated and that it was the only right thing to do.

Just because a story like this is told doesn't mean the average russian soldiers wasn't a patriot and did what they felt were justified. But that being said we should be allowed to see all the aspects of it and be able to talk about it. Preferably without some whiny pricks downvoting a game to hell based on a sense of moral righteousness, that they aren't willing to discuss at all.

All that put aside the topic is extremely overhyped and should be allowed to die out hopefully sometime fast, when people are done feeling insulted by it.

What do you mean?

The rapping and the killing. There is actually a Russian documentary about it on youtube ( dont rememeber the name) that was translated to English. And actual veterans say what they felt when they was the crimes the Nazis did and why they did to them and why. It comes down to the basic animal instinct of revenge.

High heavens forbid that we get a darker, more grim story in in coh2 that takes some of the bad into account as well. Clearly we should stick to glorified censored story telling! (holding up a massive sarcasm sign here).

They could have done the same thing with VCoH, but they didn`t. This is simply the reason Russians are being offended here. Cause God Forbid Relic to tell how the US fought that war and every other Allied nation appart from Russia.
Funny fact; I don`t know if you knew it but when Nazis invaded Greece and were dropping paratroopers on the island of Crete. The civilians and soldiers who were on the island started shooting the paratroopers while they were landing, while by some war law you are not supposed to shoot them until they land, to give them a better chance of surviving I guess.

That's literally a huge load of bullshit.

The rapping and the killing. There is actually a Russian documentary about it on youtube ( dont rememeber the name) that was translated to English. And actual veterans say what they felt when they was the crimes the Nazis did and why they did to them and why. It comes down to the basic animal instinct of revenge.

You mean the raping and killing of millions of german civilians after the war in east prussia? I understand you feel guilty about that. One crime does not make another crime legal.
There was alot of soviet propaganda, which increased the hate towards germans in general, making them be responsible for everything.

You mean the raping and killing of millions of german civilians after the war in east prussia? I understand you feel guilty about that. One crime does not make another crime legal.
There was alot of soviet propaganda, which increased the hate against germans in general, making them be responsible for everything.

Same goes for the Nazi propaganda against Jews and Soviets. For them we were lesser beings, monkeys who didn`t deserve the land they occupied and should be all exterminated from the face of the earth

They could have done the same thing with VCoH, but they didn`t. This is simply the reason Russians are being offended here. Cause God Forbid Relic to tell how the US fought that war and every other Allied nation appart from Russia.

But this isn't the same game. It is a new game attempting to bring something new to the table. I understand the comparison, but I find it to be unfair. Personally I think there should have been an equally grim german campaign in coh 2 from day one. Sadly that wasn't the case, but using that as a carte blanche to make said comparison and take such extreme offense as people have is honestly ignorant and unfair.

Same goes for the Nazi propaganda against Jews and Soviets. For them we were lesser beings, monkeys who didn`t deserve the land they occupied and should be all exterminated from the face of the earth

That comes from one, who is heavily biased against germans because of propaganda. Fix your history, then come back.
Btw. Stalin did kill jews too, because they were jews. :\

But this isn't the same game. It is a new game attempting to bring something new to the table. I understand the comparison, but I find it to be unfair. Personally I think there should have been an equally grim german campaign in coh 2 from day one. Sadly that wasn't the case, but using that as a carte blanche to make said comparison and take such extreme offense as people have is honestly ignorant and unfair.

Funny fact is that from the start I already stated I don`t care how the Soviets are portrayed in the game, because I realize this is just a game

That comes from one, who is heavily biased against germans because of propaganda. Fix your history, then come back.
Btw. Stalin did kill jews too, because they were jews. :\

Oh should I? Maybe you should go read some real books, and I am not saying one or 2, but a lot, watch some documentaries while you are at it. I know Stalin killed jews. But I don`t remember it to be the topic of this discussion.

You mean the raping and killing of millions of german civilians after the war in east prussia? I understand you feel guilty about that. One crime does not make another crime legal.
There was alot of soviet propaganda, which increased the hate towards germans in general, making them be responsible for everything.

Would you be so kind to give a link with some source about millions of killed german civilians by soviets? I know there are like 2,5 millions killed during the war at all fronts, but it's a different I guess?
Thanks