Dear Relic, can I have a word please? (Russian history)

The Russians cannot pretend as if the depiction of historical fact is somehow Russophobic, while refusing to engage with their collective responsibility for Soviet History. Especially when the Germans are continually vilified 70 years on for crimes committed at the behest of a minority of Germans and when the German nation is completely up front in the treatment of their past.

So you want to tell me that the Russian Federation today does not try to help the rest of the world?
To be honest this is not a discussion for this forums but I shall continue until some admin doesnt close this thread.
You really believe the Germans do something for the past 70 years just to pay off the crimes their father did during WW2? Honestly? Look at Europe as a whole, who does all the decisions? Your precious Germans.... where do they put the opinions of the other European countries? Up their asses. Why do you think Britain thinks of leaving EU? Cause Germany already controls EU, you can`t even fart without their permission. I live in EU, Cyprus to be exact, we felt the German control on us with the deposit cut. Russia wanted to help Cyprus, but your precious Germans didn`t allow it. Why do you think that happens?
Cause Germany knows Russia is their number one enemy. And their lovely president only throws shit on Russians, modern propaganda on how Russians are so bad and how we are all mafiozi and we only know how to steal, like Germany is a pure country.
But as I said no matter how much shit you throw at us we will endure. You are welcome to my house as long as you come with no bad intentions but if I see you come to oppress me, you will have a bad life ahead of you.

updated topic title

" You are welcome to my house as long as you come with no bad intentions but if I see you come to oppress me, you will have a bad life ahead of you."

Like how Russia is criminalising and oppressing homosexuals right now?

Russian assets in Cyprus where, and are, universally recognised to be in their majority, criminally earned oligarchic funds.

Your bias towards Germans is incredibly offensive. Put your own house in order before you presume to criticise others.

" You are welcome to my house as long as you come with no bad intentions but if I see you come to oppress me, you will have a bad life ahead of you."

Like how Russia is criminalising and oppressing homosexuals right now?

Russian assets in Cyprus where, and are, universally recognised to be in their majority, criminally earned oligarchic funds.

Your bias towards Germans is incredibly offensive. Put your own house in order before you presume to criticise others.

Yes this thread would be nothing if you hadn`t come to comment on my post as always.
Who told you "Russian assets in Cyprus where, and are, universally recognised to be in their majority, criminally earned oligarchic funds." this shit anw?

Go home, kid.

Fix your shit in Russia before you try to be a big man.

wtf is this topic about?

lol dunno anymore

Would people please post using proper paragraphs and capitalization? Reading some of these posts is painful.

Some of you have no regard for objective discourse. The point was that Germany acknowledges and vilifies its Nazi past while Russia defends its past actions as heroic and chooses to ignore the negative parts. It doesn't seem sensible that modern Russians should care so much about defending terrible actions committed nearly 70 years ago. A willingness to criticize yourself and your group (ethnicity, nation, religion, etc.) is a mark of a mature and rational mind. Blindly defending groups that you feel connected to just makes you look like a fanatic.

I also wonder whether all of the people complaining actually paid attention while playing the game. One comment on the Polygon article said a mission depicted Soviet soldiers burning down a Russian house with civilians in it with a flamethrower. No such thing is in CoH2. The houses you burn down in mission 2 are part of a village that was already evacuated and the intention is to deny the advancing Germans resources and shelter.

This seems to be a case of bandwagoning following the complaints of a few vocal people who distorted the narrative of CoH2 by cherry-picking the things that would be offensive to Russians and potentially exaggerating them. I can't see how an objective look at the game can conclude that the Soviet soldiers are depicted negatively (they are not) or that the Russian people are depicted negatively (they are not). The only things depicted negatively are the actions of two Soviet officers and Stalin, and one of those officers is redeemed in the end. This is so overblown.

it is on!

Go home, kid.

Fix your shit in Russia before you try to be a big man.

Where are you from Nazi boy?

You just faceplanted. Hard. No teeth left, bro.

Cut out the namecalling immediately or we'll start handing out warnings. If you don't have something to contribute, don't post.

Meh w/e not bothered with Nullist. This kid got issues

Calling him a "kid" can be classed as namecalling. You intend nothing other than to rile him up. What did I just say? Last chance, seriously.

Why is it we let people shit talk Germans but somehow when an accurate depiction of Russia given we're fucking horrible people?

Calling someone a Nazi because they're German? Seriously, <swear word> you.

That's my last comment on this thread. And it should be the last comment in this thread full stop, I think it's run its course.

There have been some interesting posts here, we'd rather not lock the topic. But I'll be happy to remove some individuals that intend only to insult and disrupt.

In my perception, media depiction (including game narratives) have begun moving away from aggrandising and glorifying war. Instead, they prefer to explore and depict the dilemma and hardships of characters living through them with very limited control of their lives.

Criticism of the CoH2 narrative, in comparison to the vCoH and expansion campaigns, is misplaced in this sense. This is a "new" way of telling the story and engaging the player emotionally to the games continuity. Instead of making him feel a hero for the massive amounts of enemies he kills and how big his dick is, this instead makes him feel a hero by defining himself, according to his own morality, in those difficult moments when morality is, itself, in danger of annihilation.

The campaign narrative is not outright damning of Soviet participants, it is however outright damning of Soviet attrocities as depicted in the game.

Its a fine line, and one that is subject to personal interpretation.
Ultimately, its simply a "different" way of telling the story.

Edited to add:

There is, however, a strange ethical double standard in criticising the campaign.
This is vested in the fact that anyone, superficially atleast, morally and personally invested in the game for its depiction of the lives, adversities and hardships of the people it portrays, are completely carelessly sending those same moral and personal figments, ie: the units, models ta ks etc, in the game to their certain virtual deaths without two thoughts about it.

Lost 3 Cons? Retreat and reinforce. Do I care what their names where or how many children are now fatherless? No
Do I care that he may have become the next Tolstoy? Nope. Do I sympathise for the virtual representation of Helmut Müller when he combusts in flames from a molotov, screaming? No, not really.

Interestingly, the Close Combat series actually had each individual man with its own name!
Hows that for realistic depiction!

Education is not the province of games, movies or other entertainment. Nor is it their responsibility.
It is the responsibility of schools, education ministries, parents and society at large.

I think Relic did its best, and sufficiently so, to not warrant this kind of critique.
They modelled the narrative on a first hand documented source.
They took great pains to record real audio for different weapons.
They models are fantastic (aside from Grens, which should have Ostheer uniforms )

Pains have been made for realism and historical accuracy.
BUT
CoH2 is not a historical documentary, nor a complete re-enactment/representation.
What moral conclusions any given individual may draw from the storyline, are their own personal subjective interpretation derived from their own personal morality, understanding of history and experience, and not Relics responsibility nor fault.

I apologize for overstepping the line. And truth be told every country knows history the way it suits their needs, and this is what they are teaching kids at school

I've read about my own country's history. If I open ANY history book being taught from primary school until high school, I will find beautiful heroes and national events.

If I actually open a serious piece of academic history (I know a couple of people who have been to my country's national archives, and I have some academic history books), you will find this:

-Most high ranking or high profile "heroes" were actually doing it for their own benefit, not the good of their people.

-Half of the battles are fought for political gains, not necessarily military ones. In fact, the greatest deeds in war seem to be forgotten, because not everyone understands the strategic elements involved. Propaganda plays a big role here.

-The "cause" you were fighting for was probably good, but it was only good so that young soldiers follow you. In the end, it boils down to the consolidation of power, not the good of the people.

This applies to the U.S., Germany, Great Britain, France, Russia, Japan and even the Congo. It's straightforward human nature, it is not restricted to a historical setting or nation.

This is why a lot of the movies and books picture the stories of soldiers. They are the ones facing the horrors of war, when the leaders (Be it Ceasar, Hitler, Stalin, Alexander or Simon Bolivar) are eating freshly squeezed orange juice in their comfortable Estate.