Mortars/ISG/Pack Howitzer

One way to fix the mortars imo is that ALL of them should have appropriately short range like 60/70; and only get 100 range upon hitting vet 3.
That way you can't just put a mortar just outside your base and expect it to shoot across the entire map and do all the work for you. (Mortar pit/ISG covers half of a 1v1 map, wtf?)

By all mortars, that includes soviet's 120mm bullshit, Noob-savior mortar pit, ISGs & Pack Howitzers.
In return they should be more accurate with manual barrages.

This will reward actually micro-ing your mortars - move it to the frontline supporting your troops, actually using manual barrages to support your push.
And reduces the stupid stalemate games of mortar wars - Just put a couple MGs & Medic in the front and spam mortars to wipe your enemy squads on their own (or countering your enemy's unending mortar spam).
Currently 100 range mortars are too much at the start of the game, and make it too easy to defend points/wipe squads with it, especially it auto fires. That role should be given to Rocket artillery at late game.

Than will the soviet 120 bullshit get a enorm buff...because it can retreat...6 models...

isg are slow as fu ck...and morta pit...cant move...hmm..but the mortar pit..its OP in all ways...so its fine with a range from 70

Some thoughts that I wrote down about indirect fire in general in CoH:

This is a thing that has bothered me personally since the very start of my CoH2 endeavors. It is incredible how little effort indirect fire units need to be as effective as they are. I would very much like to have the automatic/passive/idle scatter, rate of fire, target visibility to shell on ground time (aim time etc.) be nerfed heavily, but leave barrage as is or even buff it depending on feedback. CoH2 is an RTS and real time strategy implies interaction focused gameplay mechanics, which is why all the emplacements and indirect fire platforms that need little micro like the mortar (pit), isg and pack howitzer to a lesser extent are heavily flawed by the genre and CoH specific standards. These units defy a lot of things that make CoH great, like mind games, counter play, prediction and just general strategy. Don’t get me wrong, their actual existence is vital and great since they add variety and options, hence I would advise balancing them around barrage and nerf auto fire into the ground. Indirect fire should be used actively and it should be significantly more impactful than passively using them, which is currently not the case imo.

just my 2 cents.

In my opinion mortars need a sense of reliability.

As in, 'the third or fifth shell always hits the center of the radius'. Or, after the first three (or every) shot, the radius closes on the mortar barrage.

Highly accurate auto-fire on mortars (as it was with ISGs) is problematic. If the odds of autofire mortar shells were much lower unless the unit was completely stationary for a few shells there would be a whole lot less completely random squad wipes IMO.

The biggest problems that mortars show is their capacity to wipe squads that are actively moving around, especially in the crater fields that mortars and artillery create. The decision to barrage, and barrage specific places, should really have a higher degree of player control and reactionary play.

Read this words from guy who abuse old ISG/pacHawi, mortar pit. I guess you find in game player who abuse better then you . Dont take this thread so serius guys, post from guy who only abuse somthing broken, write about balance .

Read this words from guy who abuse old ISG/pacHawi, mortar pit. I guess you find in game player who abuse better then you . Dont take this thread so serius guys, post from guy who only abuse somthing broken, write about balance .

I abuse everything, just like any other "top" players.
Much butthurt getting beaten in abuse wars?

I abuse everything, just like any other "top" players.
Much butthurt getting beaten in abuse wars?

LUL you are top player ?
Nope, i dont abuse, but play some games with you and vs you and see few in streams, so i know what i talk (dont forget screens adn video in trending from you). Its nothing personal man, its just about you playstyle.

-Revert fix/change to range increase on auto attack at vet 3. Make it affect only barrage as before.

Fixing +100 range mortars: reduce aa range but increase performance on barrage (cd, scatter, etc).

-Mortar pit: first of all fix it bugs and equalize performance of both mortars. Reduce aa range to 100, reduce cd on normal barrage (115 range) and give it an extra light barrage (bigger cd, low damage n aoe, higher range)

-ISG: reduce AA range to 90 but highly improve barrage (cd, range, etc). Let it switch munitions with hollow shells (make it vet1 ability). Improve anti garrison.
Overall i think this is the hardest to make it right.

-Pack Howie: give it +2/3 shells on barrage.

-120mm: dunno why the complains cause for it's cost it doesn't shine. You see it cause it's on Guard Motor. It's perks are that it's a call in, survives with 1 man and the extra +20 range. But you are paying +100mp, it takes ages to deploy n move, barrage has lower Aoe than AA (wtf) and not so much lethal range improvement to other mortars (1.1 vs 1.0), AA is indeed much lethal (1.5) but it's also slow as fuck n has huge scatter. It also takes double the amount of xp to vet than a normal mortar.
Options to make it a bit more different:
-Increase damage to garrisons and emplacements.

This game is a constant battle between balance to minimize squad wipes and realism. The 120mm mortar should wreck all, but it's been nerfed to a point of near-irrelevance because its true performance would be game breaking. A 120mm mortar round has a larger kill radius than 155mm howitzer arty (if you don't believe me, look it up).

On a separate note, I agree that auto-fire should have a much smaller range than barrage. It allows you to either micro the mortar or support gun through movement or the barrage function.

I personally think that ISGs and pack howitzers should do more damage and have much farther barrages than mortars in exchange for more vertical scatter. I think this would differentiate them, especially for USF, where a pack howitzer isn't nearly as relevant with the mortar now tier 0.

2v2 is pretty much arty BS right now. OKW no matter what simply locking some terriroty and go for like 2 IGs constantly arty fucking you, covered by flakHQ. There is really like few mins gap when you can do somthing to them.

Brits are helpless against double IGs in 2v2, if you dont pick matters, USF is helpless since having few pakhowis will bleed your MP, while OKW can easily afford 2 IGs because volks are cheap. If you dont have cali or prist you fucked.

Only soviets can do against them with 120mm and katy.

In 2v2 arty camping is like main problem, every single game ends like arty fest.

LUL you are top player ?
Nope, i dont abuse, but play some games with you and vs you and see few in streams, so i know what i talk (dont forget screens adn video in trending from you). Its nothing personal man, its just about you playstyle.

Either you abuse or get abused. Deal/Dealt with it.
(And I am mainly a german player so go figure.)

2v2 is pretty much arty BS right now. OKW no matter what simply locking some terriroty and go for like 2 IGs constantly arty fucking you, covered by flakHQ. There is really like few mins gap when you can do somthing to them.

Brits are helpless against double IGs in 2v2, if you dont pick matters, USF is helpless since having few pakhowis will bleed your MP, while OKW can easily afford 2 IGs because volks are cheap. If you dont have cali or prist you fucked.

Only soviets can do against them with 120mm and katy.

In 2v2 arty camping is like main problem, every single game ends like arty fest.

I would say ISGs aren't cheap if you constantly get pressured by double bren/1919 blobs (since you always lose).
2x Mortar pit squad wipe much frequently.
Pack howitzer is expensive, but they have a huge range, huge AoE and can occasionally squad wipe. (getting vet is insane)

Either you abuse or get abused. Deal/Dealt with it.
(And I am mainly a german player so go figure.)

So its a answer for you thread, like i write, another player get abused you.

-Revert fix/change to range increase on auto attack at vet 3. Make it affect only barrage as before.

Fixing +100 range mortars: reduce aa range but increase performance on barrage (cd, scatter, etc).

-Mortar pit: first of all fix it bugs and equalize performance of both mortars. Reduce aa range to 100, reduce cd on normal barrage (115 range) and give it an extra light barrage (bigger cd, low damage n aoe, higher range)

-ISG: reduce AA range to 90 but highly improve barrage (cd, range, etc). Let it switch munitions with hollow shells (make it vet1 ability). Improve anti garrison.
Overall i think this is the hardest to make it right.

-Pack Howie: give it +2/3 shells on barrage.

-120mm: dunno why the complains cause for it's cost it doesn't shine. You see it cause it's on Guard Motor. It's perks are that it's a call in, survives with 1 man and the extra +20 range. But you are paying +100mp, it takes ages to deploy n move, barrage has lower Aoe than AA (wtf) and not so much lethal range improvement to other mortars (1.1 vs 1.0), AA is indeed much lethal (1.5) but it's also slow as fuck n has huge scatter. It also takes double the amount of xp to vet than a normal mortar.
Options to make it a bit more different:
-Increase damage to garrisons and emplacements.

Mortar pits need to be a bit more interactive, and also be banned from the base sector.

Note that Pack Howie barrage gets really scary at Vet2, when it unlocks HEAT barrage. I guess the option there would be to have a normal, multi-shell barrage, and a HEAT barrage with the same amount of shells it is currently firing.

ISG, though, is indeed the hardest to make right:
- It lacks a retreat function
- FlakHQ lockdown is just around the corner
- Even if you give it smoke, it's too expensive to be used as a smoke dispenser

To me, it's obvious that the FlakHQ needs to cost popcap (along with some spare resources) to unlock its turret gun (replacement T4 will be free. However, you still need to pay to reactivate the gun). That alone would be enough to make turtling more punishing.

However, this doesn't answer the nagging question of how OKW is supposed to break through other people's MG + mortar spam/lockdown, when they completely lack any smoke or any transport options.

How about we give OKW a 250 transport halftrack that can be upgraded to a crappier version of the mortar halftrack? >.>

So its a answer for you thread, like i write, another player get abused you.

So...what are you expecting from writing all that? a formal apology?
Go back on topic and fix the abusive game instead.

So...what are you expecting from writing all that? a formal apology?
Go back on topic and fix the abusive game instead.

I try to find logic and motive what forced you to make thread, try to make balance the game or just that another player abuse better then you. Apology from you .

I would say ISGs aren't cheap if you constantly get pressured by double bren/1919 blobs (since you always lose).
2x Mortar pit squad wipe much frequently.
Pack howitzer is expensive, but they have a huge range, huge AoE and can occasionally squad wipe. (getting vet is insane)

Thing is you cant have double bren\1919 blobs that erly in the game, I think IF you somehow rush thouse weapons, by the time OKW get his 2 IGs you would have like, maybe 1 squad of double LMGs.

By the time you have LMG blob ready there would be FlaKHQ protecting IGs for sure.

Its true that british mortars wipes much more friquent, but 400 MP for british and 660 MP for OKW are different things, by default OKW would have much more MP then British, simply because volks are cheaper in most of the cases to handle. Not to mention that double IGs compleatly shut down british mortars, if british went anything but stand fast. Simply because you cant repair them under constant IGs barrage, all repair units gets one shotted like always, because for some reason they always tend to hug each other when they are repairing emplacements.

Considering PacK Howi, yes its better then IGs, but again, its much harder to USF to afford them, because of their faction nature.

I try to find logic and motive what forced you to make thread, try to make balance the game or just that another player abuse better then you. Apology from you .

I make thread about balance from time to time (as if Relic actually reads it tho), and maybe you're too busy trolling others so you can't see it.

And no. the apology is a sarcasm, if you don't get that.