Late game armor mixed

Hi,

As a Ostheer player, I experience that The Wehrmacht has no quick answer to Allied late armor. Especially in 2vs2 with the Easy 8/Firefly combo, without a OKW ally. The Wehrmacht misses a decent tankdestroyer. The Stugg is like the Pz4 made of paper. And the Stugg miss range!

If you can´t give the decisive blow in the mid game with Pz4/Ostwinds and Stugg´s you´re in trouble to counter the allied armor. Because the Tiger isn't the tank to take out a lot of allied armor.

Does someone have experience with the combo Panther, Pz4 commandtank + Stugg pair?

P.S. I think the Ostheer needs to get rid of the Brummbar, the Stugg longbarel and the optional Ferdinand tankdestroyer. A Jagdpanther would be more useful and also a Hummel.

First of all, your thread belongs to ballance section, not strategy one. Here we discuss how to use armies, no how relic can possibly change them.

Secondly, it's pretty obvious that there will be no ovehaul in ostheer faction. Simply becouse among all it is best designed, but also becouse relic doesn't seem like doing any big changes in the future. The game gets old after all.

So, from strategic perspective, you can always use ele or pak43, stug also is great, to the point where it's commonly considered OP. Pak40 and shrecked pgrens also are top notch choices. And remember about mines, mines win games.

From ballance forum perspective: you should probably make your own game, or at least a mod, if you like it that way.

What I want to add to what ferwiner wrote: Elephant/StuGs with scopes make short work of Allied armour before they can even spot you. Combine them with mines/fausts to punish frontal pushes. Flanking will be quite hard either when scopes reveal most of the map.

Just give a 222 (Vet 2 if possible) Spotting Scope and it'll do all the reconnaissance for you! A pair of StuGs is still very much reliable against Allies heavier armour (Pershing, Comets, etc.). It may not deal the killing blow, so use it with another Pak40 (or 2 if you have the pop). The key element is the 222 with Spotting Scope since you'll see enemy armours' assault plan way earlier than the enemy own attack, so take that to your advantage, set up StuGs and Paks in flanking/defensive position. Or like Theodosios recommended, get the Elefant (Use the Jaeger Armour Doctrine for the scope cause the other one don't, but that doesn't mean the other one is completely useless) with Scope along with StuGs. May get Ostwind also to fend off any infantry push, but beside that, i'm more afraid of swarm of medium tanks push rather than some heavier tanks, to be honest.

About your idea, the Brumbarr is fine, I guess? The thing that affect the usage/effectiveness of Brumbarr is more due to the fact that it just not that rewarding to tech T4 (In 2v2 at least). Panther isn't fulfilling it's tank hunter role due to its bad accuracy on the move, Brumbarr has its worth but 2 Ostwind (Or just even 1) can do the same thing with much cheaper price, which left the Panzerwerfer the only worthfull thing, but would you really want to tech up just for Panzerwerfer? Only in bad situations, but other than that, no, rather rely on your mate (OKW for example, or Ostheer mate that skip T3).‎

Panther with spotting scopes or stug with spotting scopes. They make allied tanks cry!

get stugs and grow them in to a group of 2 - 3.

and care for them, feed them and keep them alive.

Pak guns have a stun ability at vet 1 that lets your tanks swarm on any allied armor that gets too close. It's borderline op. Also, teller mines and stugs work pretty well together. Fortified armor is better than jaegar armor on maps that don't have long sight lines for spotting scopes and also more viable in 1v1s, plus panzer tactician smokes

In my opinion ostheer is all about T2. Everything beyond that is just extra toppings on the tasty cake.

Enemy bring tanks, you bring pak, mines, schreks, fausts.

Enemy bring infantryblob, you bring MG42+mortar, Grenadiers with Mg34, 222 or S-mines.

Enemy bring onmap arty, you bring 222, flammHT, rush with infantry in HT.

And how come panther can't take on late allied tanks? At least panther is slim kitty and moves fast, compared to lumbering fat churchills, KVs and pershings. Shermans and T-34 are paper, few hits should dispose them.

Properly used, panther is more than capable of taking on late allied tanks. With good backup from paks, infantry with stovepipes and maybe some other doctrine based offmap help, you should be more than capable of tackling whatever they throw at you.

At least i am.

As any german faction youll have to deal with the hard reality that, unless youve been dominating, you will always have less tanks but, typically "better" tanks. Remember that. Its true. You will have less armor. Accept it.

That being said, if you know what youre doing the only thing you need to win a match is: 1xMG42, 2xPak40, 1xBrumbar. Everything else is bonus.