The abysmal state of the KV1
2 Oct 2016, 12:44 PM
#21
Posts: 150
KV1 is not that bad to the point of being totally unusable, it is still a call-in tank which means you don't have to tech up to purchase a vehicle, which means you can get more kv1s out earlier and simultaneously. 80 fuel to tech up to t3 + 70 fuel for t70 = 150 fuel OR 1 KV-1 @ 8CP. Counter Attack tactics is a totally usable commander especially for heavy t2 openings that include more than 2 maxims because shock troops + maxim shut down any flanks while a well positioned zis gun can ward off any harassing light vehicles. Just because someone picked a commander that includes stuka dive bomb doesn't make yours useless, it just nullifies one heavily RNG dependent unit while you still have a more than capable shock troop call in, and 2 great utility abilities (For the Motherland and Recon Plane)
2 Oct 2016, 13:43 PM
#22
Posts: 1063
The Churchill gets mainly offensive bonuses as well. More importantly the Churchill gains no defensive or health bonuses with its vet. It's ability to act as a meatshield is still quite solid.
Although I guess it does have that weird vet 3 engine self-repair thing.
But the whole pseudo-command tank aura would be such a massive change to the unit, not to mention the aura itself would have crazy impact on infantry combat. The impact on team games I won't even bother to get into either. I mean, the B-4 commander was already a pretty troll commander in team games to begin with.
A vet 1 hulldown wouldn't be too crazy though. But IMO vet 1 abilities need to set aside altogether. Crams the pacing of vet bonuses into only 2 steps.
Churchill works because its main gun is way better than the KV-1 peashooter and UK got super RE repair, if you got heavy engineer + 5-man squad than Churchill can be repaired in like less than 1 min to get full health, also lots of doctrine synergy very well with Churchill like Emergency Repair or running a Churchill under Artillery Cover/Strafing also works.
By contrast, Soviet CE takes ages to repair stuffs, KV-1 is not that threatening compared to Churchill (Does it get its MG buffed like T-34?).
2 Oct 2016, 16:18 PM
#23
Posts: 2066
By contrast, Soviet CE takes ages to repair stuffs, KV-1 is not that threatening compared to Churchill (Does it get its MG buffed like T-34?).
I had my panzergrenadiers standing in front of three KV1s and 2 of them were firing their mgs at my men, they didn't really do much lol.
3 Oct 2016, 11:16 AM
#24
Posts: 1355
You better start using it
Watched the replay, very nice use of the B4.
The last shot thou before it got destroyed (on the TA) saved your ass
3 Oct 2016, 11:25 AM
#25
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Watched the replay, very nice use of the B4.
The last shot thou before it got destroyed (on the TA) saved your ass
I know
It's just I wasn't focused on the game on that day, I didn't check doctrines etc etc and I wasn't even thinking about TA
I had similar game last week. I saw M36 (somehow I thought it's M10) then I saw Pershing but I still thought that Pershin is supported by M10 not Jackson
3 Oct 2016, 11:32 AM
#26
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Needs some work and I believe it should very much be a meatshield tank. I'll plug my suggestions here:
-Veterancy 2 Horizontal Traverse Speed removed. Replaced by an aura that boosts nearby infantry, increasing accuracy by 10% while reducing received accuracy and cooldowns by 10%. 25 meter radius.
-Veterancy 3 Reload modifier removed.
-Veterancy 3 Speed and rotation modifier from 1.2 to 1.15.
-Veterancy 3 allows the KV-1 to repair 1.25 health every second when out of combat and increase the tank's health by 160.
-Health from 800 to 960
-Vet 1 to "Defense Mode" from "Capture Point". Defense mode halts all movement of the tank in exchange for 0.8 recieved damage and lowers reload speed by 0.85.
Now you have a very tanky vehicle. It doesn't kill much at all, but it's a very annoying meatshield to deal with. The aura might be too much, but it could be a timed ability. I don't think it would need limits as you would feed TDs XP, though Mother Russia could use some looking at. It's like Valiant Assault, but way better since you get an armour bonus.
Veterancy requirements might also need to be increased with these changes.
I don't like the idea of presenting utility in the form of passive always-on auras. If KV-1 had the ability to throw smoke around to cover an advance, that would be enough to convince me to build one.
Otherwise, the idea for the aura could work, but only if it isn't folded into a passive, always-on aura.
Auras, in general, can have unintended consequences. Especially if you combine these with new penals and the "For Mother Russia" buff that comes with the same commander.
Otherwise, the rest of the buffs seem to signal to me, that KV-1 is meant to be a tank that is extremely fussy to take down; which isn't a bad thing, in general.
3 Oct 2016, 14:07 PM
#27
Posts: 1216
I agree about auras, the results would be the unit being used mainly for its aura, and the aura potentially stacking with global effects. The lack of limits to the vehicle (also its lacklustre firepower as T4 unit call-in) means its usefulness is diminished if the auras don't stack.
If you REALLY insist on the aura idea, then make it a toggled one, like the tank commander pops out of his hatch, inducing some penalties as a tradeoff, and of course limiting it to 1 since it's turned into a de facto officer unit.
Another idea worth considering is copying the coh1 Panzer4 IST, which can toggle to immobilize but increase its firing rate and turret traverse speed. Unable to move but fires faster means it's a tanky anti-infantry vehicle.
If you REALLY insist on the aura idea, then make it a toggled one, like the tank commander pops out of his hatch, inducing some penalties as a tradeoff, and of course limiting it to 1 since it's turned into a de facto officer unit.
Another idea worth considering is copying the coh1 Panzer4 IST, which can toggle to immobilize but increase its firing rate and turret traverse speed. Unable to move but fires faster means it's a tanky anti-infantry vehicle.
3 Oct 2016, 15:58 PM
#28
Posts: 2066
Another idea worth considering is copying the coh1 Panzer4 IST, which can toggle to immobilize but increase its firing rate and turret traverse speed. Unable to move but fires faster means it's a tanky anti-infantry vehicle.
This is a great idea. But wouldn't it sort of make the KV1 a underpowered KV2 in that aspect?
3 Oct 2016, 16:02 PM
#29
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
This is a great idea. But wouldn't it sort of make the KV1 a underpowered KV2 in that aspect?
More like a possibly actually good KV2 KV1's probably a lot more usable than KV2, as not great as the KV1 is
5 Oct 2016, 13:53 PM
#30
Posts: 1063
Watched the replay, very nice use of the B4.
The last shot thou before it got destroyed (on the TA) saved your ass
Man RNJesus surely loves him, I've never managed to make B4 work, always miss at important moments, also never managed to float 600mp as SU.
6 Oct 2016, 15:52 PM
#31
Posts: 721
Both KV-1 and KV-2 need something.
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