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Fix for Blobbing / Rifle Terminators

20 Aug 2016, 00:41 AM
#21
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



And why we don't have issues with big ultimate Guards-Penals blob for example? Becasue SU lacks of FRP which makes blobbing easier, faster, less punishing. Give SU FRP and you gonna notice insane blobs.


the m1919a6 are a lot better than the guard's dp-28. the garand is also far better than the guard's mosin. that dps give dual m1919a6 rifleman the ability to walk over most opposition.
You don't even have to look at the soviet. compare the effectiveness of dual m1919a6 to dual bar.

The penal have rather "normal" dodging bonus compared to the most extreme example.

blob is the easiest and simplest strat to use. it become a problem when the blob have high dps and high dodging bonus.
20 Aug 2016, 04:35 AM
#22
avatar of skyshark

Posts: 239

The guards penals blobs are just as irritating... And again, it's because vetted infantry can move over open ground and take way less damage than they should. You make the ra buff reliant on cover and blobbing will suddenly become horrendously expensive, especially in the late game when manpower is at a premium.
20 Aug 2016, 07:28 AM
#23
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



the m1919a6 are a lot better than the guard's dp-28. the garand is also far better than the guard's mosin. that dps give dual m1919a6 rifleman the ability to walk over most opposition.
You don't even have to look at the soviet. compare the effectiveness of dual m1919a6 to dual bar.

The penal have rather "normal" dodging bonus compared to the most extreme example.

blob is the easiest and simplest strat to use. it become a problem when the blob have high dps and high dodging bonus.


The same way Rifles are a lot better than old ultimate Volks blob ;)

FRP is reason behind 3/4 of blobs.

Imgaine Ettlebruck Station. Would you blob straight into 2 HMGs if you knew you have to retreat whole way to the base? Nope. But if you do, you gonna lose whole map.
Now, if you know you don't have FRP which saves you from dumb moves, you gonna move careful, recon, etc etc becase you know that each mass retreat means 2-3mins out of game.

Sure, people will still blob even without FRP but then blobbing will be very punishing for them.
20 Aug 2016, 07:46 AM
#24
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571



The same way Rifles are a lot better than old ultimate Volks blob ;)

FRP is reason behind 3/4 of blobs.

Imgaine Ettlebruck Station. Would you blob straight into 2 HMGs if you knew you have to retreat whole way to the base? Nope. But if you do, you gonna lose whole map.
Now, if you know you don't have FRP which saves you from dumb moves, you gonna move careful, recon, etc etc becase you know that each mass retreat means 2-3mins out of game.

Sure, people will still blob even without FRP but then blobbing will be very punishing for them.


Oh no mate, ettelbruck is shock troop and 120mm mortar :D

*Now replaced by roaming kill teams of commandos (I mean 3+) + ALO) and/ or 2-3 mortar pit... per player.. in anything above 2v2 xD
20 Aug 2016, 07:52 AM
#25
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Oh no mate, ettelbruck is shock troop and 120mm mortar :D

*Now replaced by roaming kill teams of commandos (I mean 3+) + ALO) and/ or 2-3 mortar pit... per player.. in anything above 2v2 xD


That just an example ;)

Even Rails and Metal can have devastating retreat without FRP, especially if it's mass-blob retreat.
20 Aug 2016, 08:15 AM
#26
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



The same way Rifles are a lot better than old ultimate Volks blob ;)

FRP is reason behind 3/4 of blobs.

Imgaine Ettlebruck Station. Would you blob straight into 2 HMGs if you knew you have to retreat whole way to the base? Nope. But if you do, you gonna lose whole map.
Now, if you know you don't have FRP which saves you from dumb moves, you gonna move careful, recon, etc etc becase you know that each mass retreat means 2-3mins out of game.

Sure, people will still blob even without FRP but then blobbing will be very punishing for them.


reinforcing isn't free.

the blob is only effective because the lmg allow the blob to bleed enemy mp while the high dodging bonus prevent your mp from bleeding out.

if you try to slam repeated into a mg wall without the benefit of terminator vet or double lmg42, you're just going to bleed yourself dry of mp.

a FRP that's too forward is also vulnerable to artillery, and if your troops weren't supersoldier it's just going to get overrun.

the benefit of a FRP is also not that big on a 2v2 map, where blobbing is still prominent
20 Aug 2016, 08:37 AM
#27
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2



For 3v3 and 4v4 removing FRPs is even bigger advantage. Each insta reatring blob is going to stay out of battle for like a 2-3 minutes.


And what about the people that don't blob like me, or do you classify all 3v3 and 4v4 players as blobbers, even those playing as Eastern Front Armies?

That's a very big generalization of 3v3 and 4v4 games, it's like me saying most 1v1 and 2v2 players are competitive scrubs that don't like to have fun and always complain about balance and whatnot.
20 Aug 2016, 09:04 AM
#28
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

You keep talking about LMGs but again, Volks didn't have LMGs.
Fusilier don't have LMGs yet the blob is still powerful.

LMGs are part of the problem but second part is FRP.

Without FRP blobbing would be very punishing and that's not questionable. Try to blob rifles without using Mjr as a FRP and you gonna see huge difference.

______
It does not matter if you blob or not. FRPs are cancer. FRPs give you unfair advantage and that's it.

Give me a reason why Rifles should have FRP while Grens shouldnt?
Why Volks should have FHQ while Cons shouldnt?

I don't see any reason behind this.
20 Aug 2016, 09:23 AM
#29
avatar of Rappy

Posts: 526

This is a terrible idea that would make assaults impossible against embedded forces. It would also give massive relative buff to IS and ostruppen who need to stay in cover anyway.
20 Aug 2016, 09:27 AM
#30
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

You keep talking about LMGs but again, Volks didn't have LMGs.
Fusilier don't have LMGs yet the blob is still powerful.

LMGs are part of the problem but second part is FRP.

Without FRP blobbing would be very punishing and that's not questionable. Try to blob rifles without using Mjr as a FRP and you gonna see huge difference.

______
It does not matter if you blob or not. FRPs are cancer. FRPs give you unfair advantage and that's it.

Give me a reason why Rifles should have FRP while Grens shouldnt?
Why Volks should have FHQ while Cons shouldnt?

I don't see any reason behind this.

It feels like you're just using blobbing as a pretext to nerf the FRP. FRP make the blob worst, but it's not what makes the blob.

and volks blob haven't been a real problem since the mp44 changes. The okw is just going to bleed if they try to blob the volks.
20 Aug 2016, 10:10 AM
#31
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

You don't get the point.

Of course FRPs are not what make the blobs. It's weapons, veterancy etc BUT without FRPs it will be way easier to punish blobbers. FRPs encourage blobbing and mak it easier.

Plus there is no reason for FRPs to exist.
But of there is, enlight me why FRPs are good, why only DLC faction should have them and why they are so needed and why it would be better to give FRPs to SU and OST instead of removing them from OKW, UKF and USF.
20 Aug 2016, 13:18 PM
#32
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

Remove FRPs from USF, OKW and Brits.
.
.
.
.
No more blobs problems.

Simplest solutions are the best

+1

To the point, simple and yet it would solve so many problems and would make half tracks more viable and reward soft retreating, unit spacing and scouting, all good things.

Lmgs are, as you point out, another issue with blobs, however, bars and brens less so (or not at all) than 1919s, lmg42 and lmg34s because bars don't have their peak performance at max range and drop off quite a bit at that (2 bars << 1 lmg42 at max range). For the stat savvy, yes, there is some drop in the damage output at max range for these lmgs but it's neglible at best.

This behaviour of 1919s and the other lmgs makes them perfect for a-moving, which shouldn't be the case.

Except for airborne, it also shouldn't be possible to double equip 1919s. It could also be reletively easily solved I think - haven't tried it though, but Cruzzi or Miragfla might know- by just requiring 2 weapon slots for the picked up version. Should it underperform comparitively with just 1, it could be slightly adjusted, but I don't expect this to be the case.
20 Aug 2016, 17:12 PM
#33
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

You don't get the point.

Of course FRPs are not what make the blobs. It's weapons, veterancy etc BUT without FRPs it will be way easier to punish blobbers. FRPs encourage blobbing and mak it easier.

Plus there is no reason for FRPs to exist.
But of there is, enlight me why FRPs are good, why only DLC faction should have them and why they are so needed and why it would be better to give FRPs to SU and OST instead of removing them from OKW, UKF and USF.


What do you give to compensate FRP?
Don't forget Ostheer has cheap Sdkf to reinforce T2 + various bunkers
Soviet has 6 men support unit that are really durable and T3 halftrack to reinforce

USF and OKW are just naked without FRP today. I'm not saying it is a bad idea, just that it is a faction design issue that is not going to be solved with the removal of FRP.
20 Aug 2016, 20:03 PM
#34
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Aug 2016, 17:12 PMEsxile


What do you give to compensate FRP?
Don't forget Ostheer has cheap Sdkf to reinforce T2 + various bunkers
Soviet has 6 men support unit that are really durable and T3 halftrack to reinforce

USF and OKW are just naked without FRP today. I'm not saying it is a bad idea, just that it is a faction design issue that is not going to be solved with the removal of FRP.


Wat?

OKW still has Med HQ where they can reinforce (but not retreat) while USF have ambulance.

Still, how many times do you see M5 being used to reinforce? It's an option, sure but without M5 they still do fine, just like OKW/USF will do fine without FRPs.

Give something to compensate? double 1919 for Rifles is enough, just like FHQ and Schwerer HQ for OKW are enough to compensate.
20 Aug 2016, 20:44 PM
#35
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

You don't get the point.

Of course FRPs are not what make the blobs. It's weapons, veterancy etc BUT without FRPs it will be way easier to punish blobbers. FRPs encourage blobbing and mak it easier.

Plus there is no reason for FRPs to exist.
But of there is, enlight me why FRPs are good, why only DLC faction should have them and why they are so needed and why it would be better to give FRPs to SU and OST instead of removing them from OKW, UKF and USF.


dual lmg and terminator veterancy are a bigger issue. FRP contribute to the issue but I don't think it's a big problem without the dual lmg and terminator vet.

It is also still possible to have a blob without the benefit of FRP. Soviet can have a mini blob with penal and guard on a smaller map.

in addition, neither the OKW nor the UKF have mobile reinforcement. USF have ambulance but neither the UKF nor OKW have halftrack or any similar unit in their tech.

Okw medical Truck is not the same. without its FRP capability the medical truck is left a sitting duck everytime you have to retreat.
20 Aug 2016, 20:47 PM
#36
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



dual lmg and terminator veterancy are a bigger issue. FRP contribute to the issue but I don't think it's a big problem without the dual lmg and terminator vet.

It is also still possible to have a blob without the benefit of FRP. Soviet can have a mini blob with penal and guard on a smaller map.

in addition, neither the OKW nor the UKF have mobile reinforcement. USF have ambulance but neither the UKF nor OKW have halftrack or any similar unit in their tech.


Just try to play with a ultimate blob without using Major as a FRP. You gonna se huge difference with each bad engagement.

So what they don't have? I don't see problem with it. SU/OST don't get extra units or free flak gun. Faction don't have to excatly the same. USF and UKF have access to double LMGs? Cool but they in exchange they shouldn't have mobile reinforce etc etc.
20 Aug 2016, 21:34 PM
#37
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


USF and UKF have access to double LMGs? Cool but they in exchange they shouldn't have mobile reinforce etc etc.


double lmg is the bigger problem compared to FRP. it affect 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. Using the lack of mobile reinforcement to justify double lmg is just absurd.
20 Aug 2016, 21:41 PM
#38
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



double lmg is the bigger problem compared to FRP. it affect 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. Using the lack of mobile reinforcement to justify double lmg is just absurd.


You asked for something to compensate removing FRP.

I answered that there is no need to compensate anything becasue USF/OKW already have way more features than SU and OST, so why would you even think about any compensate? SU/OST have nothing extra while OKW/USF have plenty of extra things.
20 Aug 2016, 23:19 PM
#39
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

21 Aug 2016, 05:56 AM
#40
avatar of skyshark

Posts: 239

thanks for hijacking the thread, australian magic. super cool of you. no one cares that you think FRPs are cancer. you've posted that in pretty much every other thread for the last month.
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