Panzerwerfer sound/tier

There are two outstanding issues with the Panzerwerfer:

Firstly, the sound for this unit... In early beta the Panzerwerfer sound had lots of 'oomph' ... it was distinct and fearsome and when you heard an ally firing it, or the enemy firing it, it was psychologically impactful. It echoed throughout the battlefield in a way that was loud and proper.

The Kytusha sounded similar but was, in the end, a totally different sound. And I feel that if anyone got the two confused on the battlefield, that is OK. That it's part of the fog-of-war and I think that is allowable... since they were distinct. Similar perhaps, but different.

At one point at the end of beta the entire sound file for the Panzerwerfer was removed, and due to an oversight took two whole patch cycles (about a full month) to be reinstated. When it finally returned it was a shallow, hallow form of its old self.

Can we get official comment on this (either way)? It feels 'whimpy' now, at least compared to it's screaming confident terrifying old self. We miss these sounds of war. It was great immersion.

The second issue, and this is a larger balance discussion, on Panzerwerfer being now a T4 unit. I feel it was moved there only because the elephant or tiger became doctrinal and German T4 would then have only two units....so it was more 'filler' than making true balance sense.

How or why is less important. I have mixed feelings on the move into T4. And I'm not sure how things can be reshuffled or if they should. Maybe where things stand now is perfectly appropriate. I'm just bringing this up for discussion. But right now it's irritating Soviets can field theirs so much earlier. I think if left as is then possibly the Soviet T4 building and unit costs need a second overall look (they do anyway for a number of reasons, in my opinion).

But that T4 issue aside.... we really care about the sound. Really. Can we get a comment on how it got like it is and the reasoning behind it?

This is really pushing the limit in terms of stuff it's reasonable to expect Relic to comment on. They can't spend 100% of their time talking about every trivial detail in the game.

It was officially discussed in the Sega beta message boards, which I guess you were not apart of otherwise you'd know. This is an ongoing conversation.

agreed... SO_L337 is going a bit overboard now. lol

But it's true, the first sound was so much more awesome

Crazy idea: maybe swap around P4 and Panzerwerfer?
That way T3 has StuG for AT, Ostwind for AI and the Panzerwerfer.
T4 has Sturmpanzer for AI, Panther for AT and P4 for all-round.
This'll give a reason to get a StuG and might even make T-34 more useful!

Boohoo, Germans have a reason to build T4!

Panzerwerfer is also better than the Kat considering everything hits in one volley.

Panzerwerfer should be T3.

If P4 isn't in T3, it's gameover for Ostheer

If Panzerwerfer isn't in T4, then T4 is worthless, because it is the only unit in T4 worthy to get

How about return of the Nebelwerfers?

Cue the entrance of the massed bands of PanzerGruppe Disentitled!

But where is the loud trumpeter, PingPing? Exhausted by so much moaning and only fit for light duties?

Panzerwerfer should be T3.

Nope.

when i finish the Tier 3 upgrade the voice hint says something like "... tanks and rocket artillery can now be called on the battlefield." and I also remember i have read somewhere that the panzerwerfer used to be in T3 and was swapped back in alpha or closed beta. I don't know why it got swapped and i asked myself this many times mainly when I face the soviet 120mm mortar (at 1CP!!!) and barely missing a counter. cause its a long way down to T4!

regards
ace

Ost is impaired in the indirect fire department in t3.

Panzerwerfer should be returned to this tier where its timing is relavant.

Yes because giving Ost less of reason to go T4 makes sense. About as much sense as making T3 even more overpowered and useful for every situation.

Meanwhile Soviets T3... hahahah

You go T4 when you need heavy armor, not when you need indirect fire.

Same should be true of both factions SPECIFICALLY for timing reasons.
At equivalent tier Sov has ZiS barrage, Su76 and Katyusha for indirect fire.
Ost has NONE.

Ost tiers are not a "what situation are they useful in" equation. They are a linear progression.

I agree with Nullist. I felt that way many times, that I am missing some sort of artillery at that point.

Does anyone een know the reason why the Panzerwerfer was swapped to Tier 4?

And which unit got swapped on Tier 3?
Ostwind?

Regards
ace

What would we swap with the werfer??

Yes Ace, Ostwind and Panzerwerfer got swapped.

That's why they are where they are now.

Panzerwerfer and Ostwind should swap places and this is why:

(1) The Ostwind requires just as much fuel as the P4 for less utility. By the time you field an Ostwind it will meet T34's or an SU-85, the first is a problem but the last totally prevents you from using the Ostwind in any meaningful way. Same fuel, more risk, for less utility than a P4. By every calculation a P4 makes more sense.

(2) German indirect fire options are meager and it got markedly worse after the Panzerwerfer was moved from T3. That's when we starting seeing the MG and sniper spam tactics rule. They still do to some degree. MG spam is still a huge thorn especially in maps with houses. Snipers still almost have no counter. Especially if there's one Su-85 on the field preventing an ostwind or P4 from getting to them. German mortar, despite the changes, aren't doing anti-sniper duty. Panzerwerfer is the balance here, for both. Again, these tactics were always in check before the Panzerwerfer move to T4.

(3) Swapping these units causes no imbalance for the soviet player considering they have the OPTION to build T4 anytime they want, they have no HQ upgrade's to go through. It's a tactical decision for them. So moving our T4 unit to T3 is not a balance issue on the Soviet side. And besides, they build direct T4 now anyway every time and have since early beta.

(4) This needs repeating: The P4 and Ostwind are redundant in the same building. T3 comes at a time when T34 or Su-85 are already on the field, forcing the decision to a P4 every time.

The more I think about this the more I feel it's strongly needed.

They are fine where they are. It doesn't make sense to revamp the entire tech tree because one building is less useful, you make the units in it more useful instead. That said, Panther and Panzerwerfer are fine, the only reason the Panther is bad is because of the SU85 is insane and hopefully that will be fixed soon. Brumbar could use some love though, and maybe a fuel decrease.

It doesn't make sense to revamp the entire tech tree because one building is less useful, you make the units in it more useful instead.

This is a strange comment to an argument no one made. No one is saying to buff the Panzerwerfer or buff the Ostwind. We're saying the Panzerwerfer should be swapped for the Ostwind. This is not a major reshuffling of the game as you state... in fact this is how it was originally, in its natural balanced state, and it worked. Ask yourself: What happened after it was moved? As soon as it was moved it caused the entire game to swing out of balance with Soviet MG's and Snipers running unchecked due to a total lack of indirect fire choice (and German mortar doesn't count).