[1v1] Countering GrenSpam as Soviets

Hi everyone,

I'm pretty new to 1v1 automatch (and brand-new to the forums), just really have experience mucking around with my buddies in AI games. I do like reading forums and such for strategies though.


Several games now in 1v1 I've had problems with Wehr spamming grenadiers. The cheapness of the unit seems to give him so much map control, and my penal battalians, despite being anti-infantry oriented units, can't seem to make a meaningful difference in terms of map control.

My build order for Soviets:
2nd engineer
Penal
Penal
Penal
Hospital
Call-in utility (120mm or Guards)
T3
T70
T70/SU-76
T4
T34-85

Any help would be appreciated, towards either specifically countering grenspam with Soviets, as well as my general micro/game.

Thanks a lot!

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  1

  VS

  Master Asia

  atL

  [1v1] Soviet vs Wehr

  by: atlantis145 map: Lost Glider

  1

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I just had to watch this as i've never ever tought that spamming grens is viable tactic. And i rly don't understand much about how to play with soviets. (I do understand a lot about losing against them.)

Biggest factor for losing i saw was that you fought always against superiority in units and you just kept fighting much lesser troops.
This is easily seen on the 3 minutes mark in center victory point. you fought against more numerous enemy units with 1 penal. -> when help arrived (too late) you kept fighting to cap that victory point against more numerous enemy units. Bleeding man power for what? you slowed him about 30 seconds and stalled your units more time out of the field because being reinforced.

Points:

1. Have a battle plan
- Don't try to be "everywhere"
- Being everywhere at once means you don't have superiority anywhere (easy pickings).
- Try to concentrate to keep an area -> And extend or harash from there.
2. Don't fight to lose
- Don't fixate against victory/capture point. Its no worth to trade manpower to capture a point only to lose it immediately, you lose more than defender.
3. Update priority
- Why on earth did you update engineers and not Penals? Second does the fighting/assaulting and first Delays attacks, builds mines and usually is repairing your things in a later part of the games. Invest in the future fighting force.
- Sniper is a pain in the ass against small squads and could have made Ost player to adapt and stop spamming.
4. mines
- Did i miss it or you didnt make a singe mine? never hitting/finding any mines means that other player uses rest of the munitions for fighting and not for finding you mines.

Only reason i have why he spammed those grens is that he did'nt know what to else to build and do cause he didnt need MG/mortar against you.

actually, being everywhere is a viable strategy.
It's the opposite of blobbing if you will.

*Sigh* There is little more than that...

Points were for this replay, for the skill i saw in this replay (Ost player wasnt rly the sharpest pencil in the pencil case.)

Denying the fuel is a priority in 1v1.

As a generalistic rule on engagement thats True.

Maxim spam shuts down green spam very hard. Also makes for a very early T70. You used Guards Motor, which destroys Ostheer lol, he must have been better.

The point was that standing still on your capped resource is a dangerous strategy, the best defense is this game is a well rounded offensive.

You need to know really well what you do if your plan = waiting until you have enough fuel.

Imagine for a second that he gets the advantage during an offensive?
That he blobs against you in the earliest?

One answer is to dance around the map and harassing him.

Writing in a review topic.
- probably Not even watching the replay, just talking about generalistic things how to play the game not how topic starter could have played that one game better...
- BLAMING topic starter about losing against meager grens.
Just Priceless COH2.org experience.

Just for my own amusement
1. Never said to stand still.
2. Static defense is you waiting to be destroyed
3. I mostly try to image what my enemy is doing. fight offensive with elasticity it like attacking but back wards. Usually elastic defense turns to a offensive assault. (btw the ost player managed to too this in the replay)
4. If énemy manages to get overhand in some point that means that you are doing something wrong and should adapt.
5. He blobs against the earliest well thats why you plan ahead so that you can get out of the way and dish damage to him. or even encircle him. Blobbers aren't rly good at microing units.
6. WTF is blobbing to do anything with this? its true that he spammed Grens on this but he kinda microed them not moving them a-move manner. (After the halfway he just had so many of those it turned to blobs but game was already over at that point)

BUT AGAIN THIS TOPIC WAS ABOUT atlantis145 replay and how he could have played it better not TOPIC ABOUT Jespe and Longshot_Cobra getting sour on each other and thowing stupid anecdotes at each other how the game should be played.

Thanks a lot for your analysing, Jespe; especially the tip around the 3 minute mark, I see what I did wrong exactly now.

So as a counter to the enemy blobbing, I should make smaller, more "mobile" blobs (like 2 penal squads together?) to go cap and trying to avoid the main blob?

So as a counter to the enemy blobbing, I should make smaller, more "mobile" blobs (like 2 penal squads together?) to go cap and trying to avoid the main blob?

MG/suppression platform is a key against blobs (not everybodys opinion). But since you went penals...

-"mobile blobs." I've would done something like when having a contact with enemy, I would soft retreat dragging the enemy with me. Trying to pool most of my units nearby to hit them from multiple angles. Make the enemy bleed more than you

- Sniper. You had at one point MP enough for a sniper. I would have forced Ost to play more agressive and attack that sniper protected by penal(s) if they would stay defensive like he was he would have bleeded.

- Mines. Even if you don't like to use mines try to plant even one. -> It can turn your game around at best and psychological thing at the least. My game have been saved numerous time because the *buff* sound on my flank warned me about enemy flanking and on the receiving end when i saw enemy use mines it makes me move differently.

Thanks again for your reply

I'll try out your suggestions the next time I play. I definitely need to work on my sniper micro, but I see what you mean (sniping one of a four man squad means their firepower is reduced by 25%).

Do you think T1 penal is viable the way I was doing it? Or should I just be using conscripts + maxims?

Thanks again for your reply

I'll try out your suggestions the next time I play. I definitely need to work on my sniper micro, but I see what you mean (sniping one of a four man squad means their firepower is reduced by 25%).

Russian sniper forgives more because of it being to man team so good to learn the basics. Basic thing that you can do is shoot and soft retreat to friendlies making pursuer think twice, when that starts to turn good you should start to learn how to "phase" with cover...

Do you think T1 penal is viable the way I was doing it? Or should I just be using conscripts + maxims?

Now I am on thin ice cause i am quite bad with soviets.

BUT i think by the level i saw in the replay that you would benefit the more from maxims and Conscrips. It teaches a lot about suppression and using suppression platforms. watching enemy how (s)he reacts and counters you MG. 2xMaxims in caterpillar like movement is quite bad opponent.

Before transition to playing with penals i would suggest you to play with USF if possible. Their riflemen are quite more forgiving and teaches more about using only infantry units on your pool. for the first minutes.

hai atlantis srry us strategist guys are all busy mentoring, but either way you got good advice from jespe...Good maxim/con play will go a long way vs ostheer and okw. Also as previously said a fast t70 afterwords should be more than enough to counter grenspam as well.

You could also do Partisans if you get caught off guard by a bunch of 222s or a luchs if you do decide to go penals/t1 though

hai atlantis srry us strategist guys are all busy mentoring, but either way you got good advice from jespe...Good maxim/con play will go a long way vs ostheer and okw. Also as previously said a fast t70 afterwords should be more than enough to counter grenspam as well.

You could also do Partisans if you get caught off guard by a bunch of 222s or a luchs if you do decide to go penals/t1 though

No problem (trying to hit 100 games so I can get some mentoring too!)

My problem in this game was that I was denied fuel right from the start, and was unable to rush the T70 like I had planned. I'm going to try some regular Soviet play tonight and see how it goes. Could you recommend a basic build order? 3 conscript 2 maxim? (adjusted for need of course)

No problem (trying to hit 100 games so I can get some mentoring too!)

My problem in this game was that I was denied fuel right from the start, and was unable to rush the T70 like I had planned. I'm going to try some regular Soviet play tonight and see how it goes. Could you recommend a basic build order? 3 conscript 2 maxim? (adjusted for need of course)

3 con 2 maxim mortar into like guards and zis isnt a bad start Maybe another maxim/con if you're facing some serious t1 Ostheer spam but otherwise thats pretty solid

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  11

  VS

  BartonPL

  VonIvan

  Double Command Panther vs VonIvan KappaClaus

  by: BartonPL map: Angoville

  21

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This is a vs OKW replay with a really wierd ending but if you quickly look at the starting build and play(cap order, etc) from Vonivan you should pretty much be on the right track vs OKW or ost.

Thanks so much!