Competitive Gaming (eSports)

15

Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2

I'm interested in gaining an idea about members opinions on competitive gaming, so I've come up with a few questions that will help me understand other people's take on it.

I would appreciate it if we could just answer the questions and not comment on peoples answers. If you don't want to reply in public then please send them to me in PM form.

The Questions:

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?
What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?
For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
What do you believe makes a game competitive?
Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?
Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?

Posts: 627

17 Jul 2013, 12:44 PMIpKaiFung

I'm interested in gaining an idea about members opinions on competitive gaming, so I've come up with a few questions that will help me understand other people's take on it.

I would appreciate it if we could just answer the questions and not comment on peoples answers. If you don't want to reply in public then please send them to me in PM form.

The Questions:

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?

What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?

For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?

Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?

What do you believe makes a game competitive?

Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?

Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?

1. It varies due to how it is implemented, but Ladder can be competitive. For example, I consider StarCraft 2's ladder as competitive. I do not consider Dawn of War II's ladder a competitive. Past that, it is prized tournaments. Unprized Tournaments are fun, but it is a large time commitment for no real reward, might as well play ladder.

2. I've dabbled in competitive gaming across numerous games, but nothing serious. I played in all the tournaments in DoW II but performed generally pretty poorly, never getting past the 3rd round.

3. I don't really watch streams of games I don't play unless I have interest in buying it and I want to see some gameplay.

4. No.

5. Polish. You can't have a competitive game if it has bugs. That's just simple fact. Buggy games can't be competitive because bugs are random factors players cannot account for. StarCraft II for example. Wasn't anything new in design, but it was consistent. Units did what they were meant to do, there weren't any major bugs of note, and the game played smoothly from start to finish. That said, compared to CoH2 it is very basic in design and has less factors available to fuck up. But that doesn't change the facts.

In addition, publisher/developer sponsored tournaments. Once every 6-12 months or so. Notable Prize Pool. In between these events, other tournaments that are exclusive. Say, 32 player tournament and only the top 50 can join. This encourages people to try and improve on ladder. In between the exclusive events, you could have open ones. Winners of those ones could qualify for an exclusive tourny or something.

6. No.

7. Not who, what. What you need is tools. The only people that can provide that is Relic. I've been over this - we need Spectator Mode, Chat Lobbies, and tiered Ladder systems. This all in of themselves will encourage player growth, and that in turn will produce more quality players, which will in turn improve the competitive community, which will in turn give more content for casters and commentators, which will in turn gather interest for the game, which will in turn get more people to play it. Self-Fulfilling Prophecy. But first we need tools.

Posts: 77

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?

A game that offers a reasonably high skill-ceiling, and a community that thrives on bettering themselves in the multiplayer part of that game. It doesn't have to be able to sustain a professional player-base, but regular tournaments and an active community that features guides and constructive resources to increasing general skill level that in turn plants the seeds for future top-level players.

What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?

I've played a couple of FPS games (COD4 + TF2) competitively, my most involved was TF2, playing with a number of teams for around 3 years, 5 nights a week. Did ok, got to like div 2 of the ETF2L (European tf2 League) and participated in other leagues such as the ESL and Wireplay, but they were not as prestigious.

For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?

I was super into watching Starcraft 2 and HoN when it first came out, and I ended up playing these games a fair bit as a result.

The only games I don't play but do watch streams of are fighting games (I watch crosscounter and stuff occassionally).

Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?

I've had the opportunity to compete in the i-series lans but never ended up attending

, so no.

What do you believe makes a game competitive?

A game that offers players many avenues through which they can express their skill at said game. Be it through creativity, speed, reflexes, strategy, quick-thinking or simply sheer practice and hardwork, a game needs to have a high enough skill ceiling, that average/casual players of that game, can watch the top players and think, wow, if only I could do that.

From that point, the general community has to care enough about the game to support tournaments, maps the general infrastructure on which that game will survive (and recently some of this onus has been placed on the shoulders of the developers, and so their passion for the game is crucial).

Furthermore, talk shows, interviews and other forms of journalism need to take place in order to flesh out strategies around the game, and the personalities behind the top players.

Teams forming to foster new talent that will continue the growth of the game and scene.

Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?

I have not, but if I were to become involved, it would definitely lean towards producing content.

Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?

The vocal community, those who take the time to register on forums and post clearly care about the game on some level. The general attitude matters, rather than continually citing balance, strong players will seek to manoeuvre around it using creative or solid strategies. Thus role models are needed, and these have to stem from forum members.

Dedicated individuals are needed to post guides and content for newer players, to place them on the path to eSports stardom

, people will be more inclined to play strategy games if they are given some form of basis to work from. As an avid stream watcher I am seeing many people ask "new to this game, what is a Soviet/Ostheer build order?" and it is these people that we need to encourage to become a greater asset to the game.

Content producers are another huge factor for today's games. Streams, Youtube channels, artwork and interviews are all very integral to both drawing in new viewers/players, and keeping the existing ones entertained and engrossed.

Lastly, the developers have a critical role at certain periods of a game's life cycle, notably at their inception, in order to iron out bugs and get the game as close to perfect as possible (balance patches are included here, as games are obviously less balanced upon release). Also at later stages, such as introducing new maps and possibly expansions that will keep the game feeling fresh and lively, without oversimplifying or polluting the game's essence to achieve it.

One thing that good developers are managing these days are to integrate streaming services and news pages into the game client, this is always a positive.

Furthering that theme, developers tweeting/posting on facebook, their official websites and so forth, about tournaments would be fantastic.

I've left the incorporation of leaderboards and observer mode last because they are hopefully coming to CoH2 very soon, the same can hopefully be said for in-game lobbies. These allow the both content producers and players, a far easier time of either promoting the game, or enjoying it and talking about it with friends.

Posts: 299

•What do you consider to be competitive gaming?
Any game where two or more people play against each other in an attempt to achieve something.

•What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?
a little sc2 amateur and some tournaments in world in conflict with my clan. In both cases didn't get very far.

•For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
I no longer play sc2 but every once in a while I'll watch a tourney, mostly for the story lines not so much for the games themselves.

•Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
no

•What do you believe makes a game competitive?
That would be levels of distention like leaderboards and tournaments, as well as no one beat all strategy that both players have to use to win. At the end of the day it has to be fun and complex enough to engage players in a way to keep pushing themselves to beat, at least one other player.

•Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?
I once ran a stream and YouTube channel for world in conflict for about 2 months or so. Am I interested in doing something with coh2? yes. Do I really have the time for it, to bring it to the quality I would want? no.

•Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?
People. It always comes down to people. Casters and events for producing interesting stories of people. Players having a personality showing they are more then screen names and are people. At the end of the day anyone can easily walk away from a game, but they can't easily walk away from a friend. The more you connect people, the more people who will want to join in.

Tools are great and they can help make everything easier but at the end of the day tools only help us to connect to other people, they aren't the connections themselves. You can have great tools like leaderboards, chat rooms, and in-game viewing tools but if your not connecting people and telling stories it doesn't matter how many great tools you have cause you won't have many people for long.

Playercard of RtN.Con

1v1: P	2v2: None	3v3: None	4v4: None
1v1: P	2v2: None	3v3: None	4v4: None
1v1: P	2v2: P	3v3: P	4v4: P
1v1: P	2v2: P	3v3: P	4v4: P

Multi Quote

Reply

1

Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?
people playing against each other not just for fun, but for ladders or prices, success, etc.
What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?
company of heroes, only intermediate to pro level, but very involved, maybe dayz, pro level with a clan
For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
not really
Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
yes
What do you believe makes a game competitive?
many players and of course the three B's: balance, balance, balance
Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?
iam producing a guide for coh2.org atm, never organized an event.
Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?
you need many players to play the game, especially coh, because many players will not be able or willing to lose game after game until learning the basics. it can be quite rough

1

Posts: 1838 | Subs: 17

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?

Usually the game is fairly balanced so that players can take part on equal terms without either side having an advantage. It is all down to their skill and performance.
What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?

FPS games like DODS and COD. I normally put my all into something when I am very passionate about it. My performance was very high.
For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?

Yes I sometimes watch the odd SC2 torny being casted in order to get ideas how to improve the coh2 scene.
Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?

Yes when I was younger I used to go to Chess tournaments as well as Drama competitions.
What do you believe makes a game competitive?

Playing against other players in order to achieve a goal or some kind of prize be that physical or non-physical such as respect or fame. Furthermore the game has to have a considerable number of players as otherwise there would be no competition.
Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?

Yes I have created content such as streaming competitive events, create guides and try to teach people through my stream as well about playing CoH2 competitively.
Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?

I believe both the developers and players play equal roles in building a strong competitive community. The developers build the platform and supply the tools be that observer mod and leaderboards while the players make as much use of these tools and features as possible. I would say the most crucial parts of a building a strong competitve community are: enjoyment, great competition (lots of good players), great rewards like prizes or recognition and strong developer involvement so that the community knows their voices are being heard. Finally I would say word of mouth and strong marketing is important as without these then expanding the original community will be very difficult.

Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?
When someone is playing not just to have fun or to win but also with an eye towards their overall position, either on a ladder or in a tournament or just in terms of who people think is good.

What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?
I played CoH competitively but never got very good (lvl 10-11 with everything but Brits, playing as random). I played some competitive Counterstrike back in the day but nothing pro or anything like that. I don't play much CoH 2 but when I do I play competitively.

For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
I watch a ton of Starcraft II vods. I watch some Wargame: Airland Battle vods. I don't play NS2 competitively but I watch vods of that game. Every once in a blue moon I watch DotA 2 tournaments.

Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
I went to a couple PAXs and watched parts of the Omegathon.

What do you believe makes a game competitive?
People playing it competitively is all it takes. Obviously if the game is fun, balanced, depends on skill more than luck, and has tournaments and a ladder, that helps quite a bit.

Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?

Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?
IpKaiFung is instrumental in building a strong competitive community.

Posts: 1

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?
Playing games for money, fame or other prices in tournaments and other events.
What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?
None, but I like it if there is a competitive scene for a game. This makes it more attractive for me.
For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
Starcraft 2
Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
No
What do you believe makes a game competitive?
Mostly the community.
Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?
I would like to, but I usually have limited time available.
Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?
For starters, a large and active player base consisting of competitive and casual players. And of course money.

Hope this helps!

Posts: 72

BIG WALL OF TEXT. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?
Generally when there's some sort of prize pool involved on consecutive basis. That doesn't have to translate into there being big $ involved, but as long as sentimental value to practice and WANT to win.

What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?
DOW2 always had good potential, it was infact really really strong pre-Chaos Rising with 1.9 patch (I think) and the tournament enviroment was probably at it's strongest back then. There was the EMS and what-have-you. But most of it was tied to ESL, however- it was really an odd position, since our Team-Captain was a member of the ESL Admins(Or at least part of the staff), so there was alot of drama between there, and well- the distribution of the money was really shady as well, it was all abit of half-arsed bake of cake. Ups and downs from my experience on that.

I used to play Heroes of Newerth at a fairly high level as well, but to be honest, it also had it's ups and downs in it's course of events. I eventually just got bored of the game, and moved on. But truth be told, in the early-stages of the game when I played, it was just a copy-paste of DOTA with some fairly unique heroes, but the general gameplay wasn't any different. At least League of Legends had the balls to do something that was more of their own niché, so I moved to that game, and now I'm just facepalmning due to the general stalemate of the game progression, and questionable balance decisions. I can still enjoy watching it, but I don't have that much fun playing it anymore, after playing since it's beta.

For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
I really don't watch VODS for the most part, but I do watch streams pretty much nonstop. (I pop in once in a while to see if there's anything interesting going on). Vieweing VODS that last for 3-4 hours is not really ideal, SC2 vods are abit more reasonable due to it's length of games. This is where I think CoH2 might falter abit, due to the nature of the games general length of games.

Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
Sweden only has one real big e-sport event, unless you're into SM scene, but it's really abit so-so in terms of quality, but the production value has really increased the past year, and it's actually being live-broadcasted by quite big swedish websites and it's being written about in the newspaper quite frequently, even getting some headlines iirc. So it's really good to see it's growing, and its' growing at a steady pace. However, due to the quality of games, I'm not so sure people will be inclined to watch, unless the SM plays goes big, speculations everywhere.

What do you believe makes a game competitive?
First of all, I think the game needs to keep people interested in watching. There needs to be a glimmer of hope for one players to be able to do the big plays and make a comeback. Watching a 40-50 minute game that was decided in the first 5-10 minutes is not fun to watch. It's abit of an exagurration, but w/e.

On the other note, people to stop being so bloody naggy about issues, and stop blowing things out of proportion. "Meta games" don't involve over the course of a night, and balance issues aren't spotted directly, as there are so many different variables and factors to consider. Unless there's a glaring "1 shot 1 kill range 500 stuff" on a vehicle, but again, overdramatic,- but w/e.

The "Expert" scene should at least be abit more "proffesional" if they want to showcase the game. That however doesn't restrict that they can't act abit goofy or "trolly", but it should be evident, and humble about stuff, instead of steering up the hornets nest just because they can. It's just makes the community look like a pile of dump. It's good to have people with different iconic behaviors, and there's also good with some rivalry, but it really should be kept to a reasonable level where the rest of the community doesn't have to put up with two tweens discussing jibberish.

Building up teams is also a good addition, if there's more actual teams (With websits, and misc. stuff) it grows more "support" to some degree, and gets people voting for one over the other, instead of individual players. Let's see how I can formulate myself on this;
If there's 4 players around, 2x of these players are in a "team", there's going to be 2 different supporters. However, if the 2 remaining players has no actual team, they have less support due to them not simply just being in a team. I hope that somewhat explain what I mean.

Introduce Bulletins to the competetive-scene. I honestly feel like it's a big slap in the face to Relic by not having this implemented in the first place. Now, I'll explain abit on this;

By having bulletins, espicially introduced to the competetive scene, it gives the commentators abit of a discussion to bring up during the pre-game show, or loading scene, or specifically during mid-game analysis they might make. It might even sparkle some "iconic" playstyles that fit to specific players builds or general gameplay. It also gives viewers something to chatter about, be that negative or not- it does still sparkle some conversation. Let's just picture a scenario;

1. Player A chooses 3x bulletins that are heavily oriented towards infantry-oriented uses.
-> Commentators can discuss this, and pre-empatatively make some assumptions on he wants to go along with this. This also ends up being a somewhat "iconic" playstyle of said player, and might get recongition for it.
2. Player B chooses 3x Bulletisn that are different from what he usually gets, and favors for more timing-oriented builds. (or w/e)
-> Commentators are surprised/caught off-guard by this change, and sparkles some conversation about how he is going to go with this type of bulletin setup, and utilize it accordingly. This in the end, can develop some new playstyle/feature that is iconic to this player, making him abit of a "timing-guy" (or w/e, again).

I understand there's some "balance" concerns, but like Relic have said, and some people have stated, some bulletins might not be the greatest compared to one another, but it's definately an aspect of the game that I'd really like to see actually get into the competetive-scene, it was added for a reason afterall, and it's a moot point to even go practice actual high-competetive games, since bulletins are always active, unless you play customs (which are somewhat more demanding on having the contacts) to play the "no-bulletin" shaningans. It limits the player pool, and the competetive scene. I definately dislike the bulletin restriction thus so far. The Commanders are an understanding process, but I'd like to see it become possibly "uplifted" once they might become purchasable, or unlocked (depending on How relic does it) similiar to the lines of Dota2 (Bare with me), that certain Heroes are not accessible in the competetive scene, until a certain period of time.

Certain Commanders are only available at certain levels, so that ultimately also punishes people with not enough time to dedicate themselves to getting to a certain point when they can interact with the e-sport scene. It's just .... ugh, I don't like how this whole thing is being handled to be honest, there's room for improvement.

Possible implementation of a "Tournament Mode", would be good - but it's definately one grasping straw, and I honestly don't see it happening. It would be where every commander is available, and bulletins are unlocked. So everyone is playing on the same level. Obviously, you'd want to restrict this to some level, possibly on a different clients with some restrictions ontop of it. But yes, it's just more of a dream rather than a possible reality.

What was the question again?

Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?
I more or less gave the clear signal for some tournaments in DoW2 in the modification I work on, and I also shipped in some prize money, but that was roughly about it. I don't see myself indulging myself in that again. I'd stretch myself as a commentator if anything, more than organizing stuff. :-)

Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?
I'll say what, rather than who. It's a combination of both the community and the publisher/developers (Publishers might be abit so-so, I'm not so sure on how much interaction they actually can have), but I know the developers care deeply, as evidently shown by Relic.

Harlequin tried doing something for DOW2, and I really appriciated all the hard work he put into it. I know he wanted to commit to making events more hyped-up and not as frequent, but more "unique", and less of a "oh look it's the weekly daily chore tournament". He'd want to hype up, and build up the event. I honestly think that was a great idea in general, because it actually worked. It gave both the viewers something to long for, and the players themselves to have plenty of time to practice. More people should have gone for the same approach I feel, and considering how the EMS worked that was also one of those "Once in a while" stuff, it sparkled great deals of viewers and practice time for players, and the players themselves got invested with the game.

Not one person is going to make a difference in the growth of the game. It'll require teams, several of them.

Posts: 881

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?
Any match where two players or an organized (not random) team of players are competing against each other in order to win.
What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?
Quake 2, first online gaming experience, pioneered Capture the Flag mode in Denmark.
Quake 3, the natural follow-up. My clan became European Masters in 5v5 Capture the Flag. I was pretty good at 1v1 too.
For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
SC2 once in a while, because it's fun watching those crazy huge tournaments.
I do not play DotA2 competitively but still watch some streams from time to time.
Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
Yes, Quake 2 and 3 Danish Championship LAN competitions.
What do you believe makes a game competitive?
The people that play it and the community around it.
Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?
I produced maps for Red Alert 1&2 (which Westwood stole and published on their own expansion discs!), Duke Nukem 3D, and had some success with my Quake 2&3 maps.
Ran the first danish Quake 2 CTF tournament back in my teens, home-made homepage and everything.
Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?
The players, the marketing guys and the commentators themselves. They make the game interesting for the public to watch, and possibly teaches them the basic knowledge of game mechanics necessary to enjoy the game.

Posts: 396

The Questions:

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?

Well that depends really. Having a ladder or ranking system where the game puts an emphasis on trying to win can be considered competitive imo. Traditionally though, I would consider a game competitive if there is an organized form of formal competition (ladder, ranks, tourneys, leagues, LAN Events, etc) that is structured around a balanced game. The "balanced" wording is key because without an equal opportunity for each team or individual to achieve victory the game is not competitive. There are ways to incorporate balance considerations and this is done using map selections, randomization, LAN Events etc. I find it's easier for FPS's (COD, CS, Quake, etc) to be more "competitive" simply because they allow the organization to manipulate the parameters of the game to establish fairness but they require an address of connection issues. LoL and Starcraft have achieved competitive play through closely monitoring the balance of their games. To be fair, my experience with both those franchises I just mentioned is very limited.
What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get?

Delta Force (1998) and Counter-Strike were my first competitive games and really the only ones I've ever played. Both were tactical-team based FPS games. Delta Force was arguably one of the greatest, and first, competitive communities to evolve around a video game. The community itself was so passionate about the game and their individual "team" or "squad" that the competitive aspect of the game lasted wayyyy longer than the support for the game from the now dead Novalogic which produced a series of AWFUL sequels in an attempt to try and capitalize on the success of their first effort - although DF: Blackhawk Down was a nice try I guess. I was much more involved in DF (one of the best players in the game) than CS but was on a Cal-Main team for 1.6 during it's heyday.
For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?

Sometimes just to see if they look worth purchasing it - "Let's plays" and what not. They're various.
Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?

No but I think it would be fun to compete with a team at one. Individually, no thanks.
What do you believe makes a game competitive?

Think I laid that out in my answer to Question 1, but I think it takes a combination of a great game that allows for competitive communities to birth from its game-play and support from the developer/community that plays it. I also think, and this has been somewhat limited in the video game marketplace, that connection and logistical issues play a pivotal role in how limited the scope of how competitive the game can be. DF solved this problem because their netcode is now archaic. The game required like a 28.8k modem to play and was hosted by a personal PC of someone you hoped had a high speed internet connection when those were in their infancy. I stomped fools on my 33.6k AOL internet or whatever because that's how I rolled. Still...7v7 and 8v8 matches were the standard and it incorporated players all over the world because you could either be effective simply because you lagged across the screen and people had to lead their bullets farther ahead of you (bad connection to host) or you mowed people down easily but also died easily (good connection to host). Teammates were loyal and what squad you were on was a BIG deal, like resume building stuff for other teams. They organized two huge get-togethers where people traveled from all over the world to meet up to just play the game. CS solved the problem because the game was popular enough that they could fill out leagues according to regions (CAL-M, EAST or CAL-IM CENTRAL for example) and you could purchase home servers that acted like a home stadium. That type of competitive atmosphere in gaming still hasn't been matched IMO, for me at least.
Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?

I may have helped do some work in DF but I can't remember as I was pretty young back then. I have organized competitive events in games of real life - I organized soccer (football) tournaments. Sure.
Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?

Combination of developer, the players, and the community sites that administer the leagues, tourneys or whatnot. I know this has been somewhat incorporated with MLG and stuff recently. That's not a bad thing as those guys who dedicate their lives to gaming deserve to be paid big dollars, and MLG has the big dollars. However, I don't think it takes big dollars to make a strong competitive community, just a combination of a great game, people who are passionate enough about it to care about both the community and events taking place within that community, and a solid player base that shows up for events. It helps to be able to build teams/squads/clans in your game/community because this allows for people to cling to it. They are more likely to get involved if there is a shared experience to be had and something to keep them attached to the game. This is why no one goes bowling alone really. Going back to my fond memories of DF I remember that just being recognized as being on one of the top teams in the game was enough. I didn't need a monetary prize and very little was ever given away as a prize in the game (I mean how do you split small amounts of cash with 8-12 people living all over the world?). One time my mouse ball (yep, you read that right) was bugging out and the team leader asked me for my address and sent me a brand new laser mouse - free having never met me but because he needed/wanted me to play on the team. I still play games with those same people now. The pride and friendships that were established through teamwork that the competitive atmosphere around DF evoked was seriously a defining moment in my life which is strange to say, but it is a testament to how engaging competitive gaming can be.

I hope you guys find a way to get that into this game.

15

Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2

Thanks for the replies so far, I'd like a lot more replies from other people to paint a better picture of the scene in my mind.

Posts: 336

Impossible, as your questions are very open and any conclusion u will draw from this will be extremely ambiguous and therefore without meaning and/or value.

Posts: 934

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?
It takes a few things which include a game that is properly balanced, a decent amount of active community members and players who are committed to give the game time and develop their ability.
What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?
I played competitively in Age of Empires 3. I came late to the game however and missed many of the 'big' tournaments, however felt satisfaction in beating players that took part in the World Cyber Games (WCG). I never played in a tournament, however gave many big name players upsets and was a competative/respected player.
For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
Occasionally I will watch a game which I don't play. However I never watch the player streams, only VoD's or streams which have commentary overhead.
Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
Never for gaming, no.
What do you believe makes a game competitive?
It takes a few things which include a game that is properly balanced, a decent amount of active community members (viewers, participants and hosts) and players who are committed to give the game time and develop their ability. Money/prizes is not always a factor, it sometimes attracts more people however good community/competition will always pull a crowd.
Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?
I stream CoH, however I did used to make tutorial videos for other games prior to CoH. I have never organized an event and actually lack organizational skills. I think I am to flexible with people and don't forcefully enforce set rules well enough. I think this essential to ensure things run smoothly.
Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?
The community itself. One person can not do it alone. It is symbiotic relationship than involves everyone from casters, viewers, streamers, forum staff, forum readers and ultimately the players. The developer plays a factor aswell to and if things go really well, even external sponsors.

Posts: 862

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?

A match where both players/teams play to win for glory/aknowledgement/cash in a situation where both players/teams have a fair chance at winning (by balance, refs, bo3 in case there can't be mirrors) on a prefixed moment/place.

Above all I personally play for my own hunger to perform and to still my competitiveness

I'd like to take on a player in a tourney game or a challenge to see who's the best player and enjoy the feeling of success when I win. Things like a community or cash prices are secundary but they are however a good motivation to keep practising/performing after I made it to the top. Also the idea that I wanted to be THE BEST kept me motivated for practising/playing and are at least essential for my own sense of competitive gaming.

I never feld ladders were truely competitive but I never played for top 10 positions when there were still cash rewards for the lvl 20's back in vCoH. If such a thing might come back for coh2, and when coh2 ladders will be more competitive than the coh1 ladders were at 2.601./2.602 ladder games might be considered competitive. But for now i'd say they're not.

What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?

I played CoH ofc and made it to the absolute top, I also still play Call of Duty 2 competitively but at sub-top level. I played Starcraft II serious for a time and made it to top platinum but I never considered it as truely competitive since I don't feel like i'm playing competitively when I'm only some mid level player. (Continuing with Q1, I think the level at which you play is also important for competitive play. But it's not key. I consider myself to play footbal competitive too, since there's a clear idea of matching within a competition with a reward for the winner, yet I don't even play at the highest level of amateur football.)

For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?

I long stopped playing SCII, but I still watch streams/day9 sometimes and did the same before I started playing SCII.

Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?

Not one that was connected to videogames, but I did played in all kind of sports events competitively.

What do you believe makes a game competitive?

I think I already answered this.

Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?

Yes, I steam coh1/coh2 and I write strategy guides for both games. I also hosted 2 in-house Allstars tournaments and was involved in leading/organising the CoH1 2v2 Premier league.

Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?

I've been thinking about this and I'm actually not sure. A community and people who produce content for it (guides, streams, tourneys, snf) are ofcourse important but almost every game does that and yet not every game has a succesfull competitive community. An event like SNF has really made a name for itself and is by now really important for the community, as are the devs interacting with us at these forums, which is great! But I can't point out the origami unicorn for creating the most awesome coh2 community there'll ever be! (10 points for whoever gets the film reverence

)

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Blade Runner, ofc

Posts: 862

19 Jul 2013, 23:21 PMAmiPolizeiFunk

Blade Runner, ofc

Posts: 644

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?
A game in which two or more individuals duke it out for glorious and eternal e-hounoure (quantified by cash).

What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?
A lot. I think my best performance I had in Guild Wars 1 back in 2006/07. Apart from that I have played almost all RTS games more or less competitively. SC1&SC2 the most, some vCoH and SupCom, a couple of older games. I have also played Starsiege: Tribes at one point, allthough I'm usually not the shooter type.

For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
No, I don't watch games I don't play. I generally don't watch vods/streams either, because most streamers are either bad, boring or both. I tune in when someone of note is playing, though.

Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
Yes.

What do you believe makes a game competitive?
NO RANDOM ELEMENTS *cough*
Apart from that, it needs to be fun!

Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?
Not really.

Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?
Who? Buddha? idk... someone who is good at this I guess? A community is just a bunch of people with a shared interest. So, if there's enough shared interest, there's also a community.

Posts: 92

What do you consider to be competitive gaming?

Competitive gaming for me are ladders, cups and LAN events, which bring sposors to game and eyes of gaming comunity world wide. For cups and lan there have to be a prize budget. prizes also attrack players from other games to try them selfs in diffrent games, and try to get better or the best. No one will put a lot of his time in game that actualy have no goal (e Sport players)

What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get? How was your performance in these games?
Competitly i play Call of Duty 1. Was pretty sucessful with my clan. In late call of duty era, we were best Slovenian and european clan. We were:
rank 1 EU 5v5 ladder
rank 1 SLO 5v5 ladder
rank 1 SLo 3v3 ladder
rank 1 SLO 2v2 ladder
WON EU summer Open cup divison 1
WON SLO 5v5 cup
after this we seperated, our name in COD 2 was sucessfuly transferd to other players.
Back in call of duty days there were no streams, for cups and tournaments there were only radio shoutcasts, and Mirc bots who bringed the action to people.

Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
Yes, call of duty lans in my country.

For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
I watched only COH streams, and now COH2 streams. Becouse i am bored or i want to see other ppl play and learn something.

What do you believe makes a game competitive?
What i said in first question

Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?

In call of duty we wre our own multigaming, but i was more player than main organasier. I consider myself a pearson who have bad nerves,for online organazing MVGame

Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?
What i have learned in Call of duty, which this become a really big problem in later CoD series, and ladder games. First of all is imature kids. Flaming, insulting, no respect and every match the same story. You start playing a match and in the end, you were only nervous, fun of playing dissaper in chat

The second most immportant thing is no cheating. This become in cod a really serious problem. You were not sure any more or the opponent was better or he hacked you. This brings to point where you realize that putting time, effort and love to the game...well this dissaper, and so comunity and competitive play slowly dying.
Only what left on the end is flaming kids and hackers.
That why i love coh2, gg wp, and a few words, and also a lot of people are more mature.

Posts: 25

Well, let see why some games are considered to be competitiv with a big community.
I know very well SC2:
- It's a fun game ( so big member of players)
- No performance issue and optimized( a lot of players can play the game), no latency ( to be competitiv)
- Balanced ( even if it's pretty hard, some change are done every month to make the metagame different, so the game never end)/ anti cheat system
- Challenged game (prize pool, lot of tourney but keep in mind, more the community is high, higher is the prize pool).

A lot of things here can be done for COH2.

COH2 was not designed to be on the "eSport", they not target the same customer (xp earning even if you lose battle, those dlc doctrine and buff units, no leaderboard...).

I think everyone will be agree with me taht COH2 have to do a lot of stuff if they want make this game at the eSport level.

I really loved COH1 who is for me one of the best game ever so far.
Relic / Sega should really keep what made coh 1 so fun and improve it to be on eSport instead of removing stuff and adding some bad concept (specially dlc doctrine)

	André				33
	OrangePest				24

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