Wehrmacht Infantry- whats the excuse now?

Do you try use mg vs better mid/close infatry, that cost more and counter by light vehicle ?

I dont understand what u tried to say..ofcourse i use mg...thats no good vs light vehicle though.And usf mortar make it useless as well.Penals also come in same building as c.car.Thread is on infantry.

I skip grens more often now, ony build a heavy gren opening vs usf. I open with double mg and double pio, get important garrisons and rush for 2 222s and then get pgrens.

Does anybody still play Ostheer? Haha.

I play WM like Dangerous-Cloth does (T2 rush).

It's very strong against Penal strats, you just have to spot for your MGs. Early double 222 will mow down all his unsupported infantry. Panzergrenadiers win against stock Penals easily, you need to play them defensively (stick them behind cover, let them melt as they run up to you). It's also very effective against USF--I've played against Pure Heart with this strat, pushed him straight off the map. It worked really well until late game, when he started building M10s like crazy.

USF has another problem: the early (currently overpowered) mortar, which is an effective counter to MGs.

With WM T1, it's all about combined arms. Always outnumber his squad (you should be able to, since Penals cost far more). Grenadiers supported by Sniper/Mortar/MG42/Pioneers/Grenadiers. Micro-intensive, but hey, that's what makes this game fun.

Personally, though, I'm not playing Axis until the USF Heavy Cavalry Combined Arms bug is fixed.

Problem is the way the US mortar is right now, t1 combined arms tends to get wrecked.

Grenadiers should probably get better veterancy bonuses and a 5 man squad to make them at least not get shredded late game.

gonna have to call bull on this thread, play cards please across the board.

gonna have to call bull on this thread, play cards please across the board.

That is not an argument.

Stats however prove the abysmal state of Ostheer INF.

That is not an argument.

Stats however prove the abysmal state of Ostheer INF.

The stats that are severely outdated because I posted them sometime around December? If you'd like to find slightly more recent stats, this site is reasonably accurate.

All Grenadiers need is a buff to their vet 1 ability. A slight reinforcement cost reduction probably wouldn't hurt either.

The stats that are severely outdated because I posted them sometime around December? If you'd like to find slightly more recent stats, this site is reasonably accurate.

All Grenadiers need is a buff to their vet 1 ability. A slight reinforcement cost reduction probably wouldn't hurt either.

There have not been changes to grenadiers received accuracy etc since that table was made. Once again, point still stands. The survivability portion of the table regarding grenadiers is up to date. With their received accuracy and 4 man squads, they get creamed and t1 is often worth skipping due to that fact outside of a 1v1.

Does anybody still play Ostheer? Haha.

21,7%
http://coh2chart.com/

For actual stats, you need wait 1-2 weaks.

Yes, its a slap to the face that 240 mp generalist unit loses to 300 mp AI specialist.
Things like that should never happen! Ubermenschen uber alles! Heil Ostherlitz!

Dude, you suck donkey balls at this game, you can't get higher then 2k range with the SINGLE faction you only ever play. You don't know the game, you don't know the factions, you don't know how to play with and most certainly, you don't know how to play against them and you think YOU have any excuse to post anything related to balance when you sit on 4 digit ranks?

Sure i do,i play this game for years.Bought this game with my money and played this franchise since 2007.Dont care about rank,you think you can playercard bully me?Think again.
You dont have to be great player to make an argument.Jose mourinho is a great coach,poor player.Ferguson same.
You have no counter to arguments,trying personal discrediting.I atleast play the game..you are just spectator.Play against me sometime,no problem.

Sure i do,i play this game for years.Bought this game with my money and played this franchise since 2007.Dont care about rank,you think you can playercard bully me?Think again.

I'm not even trying to bully you or anyone with PC, that was never my goal when exposing or addressing one.
It was always about stripping the target naked, so it'll have only its own hypocrisy and ignorance to cover with.

But you've said it yourself.
You don't care about rank.
Then you also don't care about improving yourself, which in turn means you don't care about balance.

Now that explains all your threads, the quality of ideas and your PC reflects most accurately your conviction that no other army should be viable then ost, come on, Ostherlitz didn't came out of nowhere.

You dont have to be great player to make an argument.Jose mourinho is a great coach,poor player.Ferguson same.

No, you don't. There isn't any rule saying only rank 500 or better can post.
However, depending on the issue you want to touch and how well you yourself fare in the game are good measurements of how valid that argument is.

Grens are OP sounds very different when aaa or you says it and different when Hans or Sib says it.

If people want to talk about balance, they should at the very least have experienced it from all perspectives. Rank 2000 player who plays all factions have more creditability then rank 1000 player of a single faction.

You have no counter to arguments,trying personal discrediting.I atleast play the game..you are just spectator.Play against me sometime,no problem.

You could spectate this 'spectator' few days ago on Zaroks stream, but whatever floats your boat.

I dont understand what u tried to say..ofcourse i use mg...thats no good vs light vehicle though.And usf mortar make it useless as well.Penals also come in same building as c.car.Thread is on infantry.

I try to say that to counter penals need use mg + grens and 222.

Grens are OP sounds very different when aaa or you says it and different when Hans or Sib says it.

That is called "Argument from Authority".

Though, I still remember how Paul.a.D defended truck pushing as a good mechanic that required skill to execute.

relic just loves shitting on wehrmacht so noone can call them nazi fanboys.

That is called "Argument from Authority".

Though, I still remember how Paul.a.D defended truck pushing as a good mechanic that required skill to execute.

Well, there is that and there is common sense, top players are still just players, have their own bias and their own balance perspectives, we can't just blindly accept that they say, biggest difference is, they can explain in a reasonable way why they think what they think, contrary to the vocal bads, who are screaming random nerfs with no explanation, reasoning, stats and with silly excuses and arguments behind them.

Its not like we've never seen really stupid stuff coming from top players, its just that its a small % of their overall feedback, while its bread and butter for 4 digits.

Well, there is that and there is common sense, top players are still just players, have their own bias and their own balance perspectives, we can't just blindly accept that they say, biggest difference is, they can explain in a reasonable way why they think what they think, contrary to the vocal bads, who are screaming random nerfs with no explanation, reasoning, stats and with silly excuses and arguments behind them.

Its not like we've never seen really stupid stuff coming from top players, its just that its a small % of their overall feedback, while its bread and butter for 4 digits.

Nah.
The true reason is that asians don't value realism (or at least authenticity) as europeans do. At least that's my conclusion by looking at games that were made in that part of world.

On topic - I hate to follow power creep line, but I think that after cons and rifles vet buff grens should have got some buff too. IMO reduction of reinforce cost to 28 MP would be great start.

Nah.
The true reason is that asians don't value realism (or at least authenticity) as europeans do. At least that's my conclusion by looking at games that were made in that part of world.

I know it better then you can imagine
Common sense should still apply.

Who would have guessed, Katikof doesn't want Ostheer to have a 5 men gren squad.