Wehrmacht Infantry- whats the excuse now?

I think a simple solution would be to allow you to add a 5th member of the squad when you purchase the lmg upgrade.

However, I have no idea how this would affect balance as normal grens and lmg grens are two totally different things.

Agree... Usf has a lof of methods to counter mgs, adding the 81 mortar was totally ball_shit

Grens suck because you get underpriced lmg, underpriced 222, and underpriced mortar plus lots of panic call ins

Grens more expensive to reinforce than tommies, riflemen and penals, but get beaten by all of them

Grens are OK. Don't see what is so exciting about 5 man grens. They are long ranged snipers, so should be used that way.


Just remove the T0 turbo pack howie and everything will be alright again.

I agree with the idea of reducing PGrens received accuracy, since they arrive a tad late, so that would make sense.


And yeah, peniles aren't penile anymore , buff pgrens received accuracy.

Grens more expensive to reinforce than tommies, riflemen and penals, but get beaten by all of them

Only from aoe attacks and sniping

Assuming one man survives~
3x30=90

5x20=100

4x28=112

Grens are OK. Don't see what is so exciting about 5 man grens. They are long ranged snipers, so should be used that way.


Just remove the T0 turbo pack howie and everything will be alright again.

I agree with the idea of reducing PGrens received accuracy, since they arrive a tad late, so that would make sense.


And yeah, peniles aren't penile anymore , buff pgrens received accuracy.

Grens are mainline infantry, and mainline infantry needs to be durable.

Tier 1 mortar could be ok,so you can use your early mgs. Maybe tier 0 is too early with stronk rifles.

Grens are mainline infantry, and mainline infantry needs to be durable.

Not all infantry has to be the same.

I think a simple solution would be to allow you to add a 5th member of the squad when you purchase the lmg upgrade.

However, I have no idea how this would affect balance as normal grens and lmg grens are two totally different things.

That would be pretty OP. They need a 5th man upgrade, but locking it behind a simple LMG upgrade would allow for 5-man grens far too early. IMO, the 5-man upgrade should be locked behind the T3 research (NOT the building), as a separate 240mp/45f upgrade.

At that cost, you're trading 1 squad worth of MP and 1 tech-tier worth of fuel for the upgrade. So you would have a choice: earlier vehicles (dropping the T3 building or tanks) OR upgrading your squad size.

Realistically, this would hit the field around the 15m mark, which is (from my experience) around when Grens start getting beaten heavily by vetted Rifles. However, since it's so late, the Cons vs. Grens match up would be basically the same, as would the Infantry Section vs. Gren match up.

Not all infantry has to be the same.

Yes, but that's no excuse for the most expensive mainline infantry (reinforce cost/model) to also be squishiest.

Yes, but that's no excuse for the most expensive mainline infantry (reinforce cost/model) to also be squishiest.

It does give them the second best target size per model
As a whole, they function just as a 240 manpower squad should.

Panzergrenadiers have been lacklustre shit for god knows how long...increase recieved accuracy from.87 to .80.This was done once and didnt make them 'terminators' but was inexplicabaly reverted.
We have terminators running around anyway in form of allied vetted dual wielders.

L2Stats

PGs already are set to 0.8 and get 0.568 when they get Vet 2. PGs are also the only Ostheer infantry who will butcher Riflemen at mid-short range without much of an issue, especially when vetted as they get 40% accuracy at vet 3 compared to a Rifleman's 30% and 25% cooldown vs their 20% cooldown.

More people actually need to use PGs in an AI role that's not mindless run-and-gun forward. Grenadiers simply don't deal enough vs charging infantry, even with LMGs unless it's massed focused fire.

^ For 340 MP and locked behind teching, they should be compared to elite units, not baseline inf.

i personally think ostheer is fine, its just some things in the other factions like the motor in USF completely killing them early game.

^ For 340 MP and locked behind teching, they should be compared to elite units, not baseline inf.

All other elite infantry except Obersoldaten are doctrinal and generally cost more than PGs to call-in with some requiring upgrades afterwards and despite this, PGs have a good chance of beating them or at least bleeding them heavily so as long as you play to the strength of their StGs.

Yes, they cost quite a bit, but unlike Grenadiers, you don't need to dump 60 munitions into them to keep fighting other infantry and T2 is practically mandatory so you're going to have access to them anyways. The population and reinforce cost is also not that high considering how much longer PGs can stay in the fight vs small-arms and dish out a lot more damage at mid-short which is an area Ostheer has trouble at which make PGs invaluable for AI defense against flanking units or just head-long charges.

At the same time, they're well-designed in the fact you can't just throw them at the enemy and have to shift from cover to cover to make the best use. You close/mid-range with rifle, weapon crews or LMG infantry, long-mid vs SMGs and now use super bundle grenades to nuke a target of your choosing.

Grenadiers are the worst infantry in the game. Conscripts are superior due to 6 man squads and the PPSh upgrade is more versatile than the LMG42 which requires you to be stationary with a 4 model squad.

The grenadier survivability stats have not been changed in any way since this table was developed. Pretty clear to see why they quickly become wasted manpower.

I wanted to compare the UKF's Infantry Sections to other infantry with roughly the same position in the other factions. Here are the stats:
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Stat	Infantry Sections	Grenadiers	Osttruppen	Obersoldaten	Panzerfusilliers	Riflemen	Conscripts	Penal Battalions
Squad Cost/Cost per Model	280/70	240/60	200/33.33	400/100	290/48.33	280/56	240/40	270/45
Reinforcement Cost/Time	35/7	30/6	~16.6/2	40/12.5	24.16/4.8	28/5.6	20/4	22.5/4.5
Number of Models	4-5	4	6	4	6	5	6	6
Total Health	320 - 400	320	480	320	480	400	480	480
Received Accuracy	0.8	0.91	1.25	0.7	1	0.97	1.087	1
Effective Health	400 - 500	~352	384	~457	480	~412	~442	480
Final Received Accuracy (vet 2 IS, vet 4 Obers, vet 3 all others)	0.528	0.7007	0.89375	0.38527	0.77	~0.56 (next patch: 0.5975)	0.6522	0.77
Final Effective Health	~606 - ~758	~457	~537	~831	~623	~714 (next patch: ~669)	~736	~623

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Please note: Infantry Sections have 30% longer cooldown and 50% longer reload out of cover. Osttruppen have three times the listed accuracy in cover.
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Stat	Lee-Enfield	Gren Kar98K	Ost Kar98K	Ober Kar98K	PF Kar98K	M1 Garand	Conscript Mosin-Nagant	SVT
Damage	16	16	8	16	10	8	16	8
Cooldown	0.375/0.6	0.75/1.25	0.75/1.25	0.75/1.25	0.75/1.25	0.5/1	1.25/1.75	0.5/1
Reload	1.25	1.5/2.6	1.5/2.6	1.5/2.6	1.5/2.6	2.1/2.8	2.4/3.4	2/3.5
Magazine	10	6/7	6/7	6/7	5/6	9/10	9/10	11
Accuracy (N/M/F)	0.598/0.564/0.529	0.748/0.661/0.598	0.3165/0.299/0.282	0.92/0.863/0.805	0.805/0.748/0.69	0.713/0.667/0.5175	0.541/0.495/0.334	0.69/0.46/0.288
Moving Acc/Cooldown Multiplier	0.25/1.5	0.5/1.5	0.25/1.5	0.5/1	0.5/1	0.6/1.25	0.5/1.5	0.5/0.5

Grenadiers are just helpless against penals as well...i mean its a total slap in the face for wehrmacht when u also invalidated wehr earlygame vs usf with mortar.Just fed up with relic shitting on this faction repeatedly.

Do you try use mg vs better mid/close infatry, that cost more and counter by light vehicle ?