USF didn't need a mortar.

now you know how allies have felt getting sniped by ostheer turbo mortar since day 1

I kinda loved that accuracy on the receiving end... Easy to deal with when you usually knew excacly where it would land. But then again that was on the side where mainline infantry can even fight in the open.

It is'nt the accuracy that pisses me off about it. Its the feature of following units in the Fog-Of-War mostly and second is that OST don't have nearly anything out of doctrines against USF anymore.

Is that about 1v1 mode? Not really a 1v1 player, but I'm sure it won't work against decent Wehrmacht player.
Your opponent will get better map control while you are sitting on 2 mortars and you won't see Stuart anytime soon. Instead there will be 444 which will rekt your REs, mortats and probably Cpt too.

In 2v2 this may work if you will be supported by your teammate.

In 4v4 it won't work, because once your mortars will be pushed out by Kubels/SPios/Volks/Grens you'll lose fuel point on your "lane" and won't get it back anytime soon because of long retreat path, so again no Stuart rush. REs just won't cut it.

double mortar + captain rush is super effective in 3s/4s, If ur forced to retreat them ur obviously doing something wrong.

So is there even a plan to humble this thing to a sane level?

Maybe USF needed an additional counter to garrisoned MGs. But playing as either Axis faction I feel that 2-3 minutes into the game on any of the smaller maps I cannot utilize cover for longer than 3 seconds any more without a high risk of dropping half health, models or getting squads wiped straight away. Even the Kuebel needs to be on the move non stop or it takes plenty of damage, makes it pretty useless in terms of damage output, no? Also thanks for granted access to the most trash MG in the game, with a 15 minute setup and pack up time. It would still be great to have it in theory. But what am I supposed to do with it now, that I can only use units that are very good at running and hiding when anywhere near that mortar?

Overall, to deal with this, I feel both Axis factions are just not cut out for a mobile aggressive play style to the extent Soviets and USF are.

As for all those mentions of USF needing a counter to garrisoned MGs... Is that a difference to OKW? Has no access to smoke. ISG doesn't do half the damage to garrisons that mortars and pack howies do, comes late and at the expense of an early tier 3. Incendiary grenades may tickle a garrisoned maxim, but the guy needs to be long term afk if they don't manage to get it out and reposition it, likely keep it in fight. Well... drifting off topic here I guess... just saying... USF is not the faction that really needed another garrison counter plus boosted early game infantry killing power.

Anyone can educate me why LeiG smoke for OkW is fine but smoke on packed howi is not?

Anyone can educate me why LeiG smoke for OkW is fine but smoke on packed howi is not?

Well, it's already got Willy Pete barrage doesn't it?

Well, it's already got Willy Pete barrage doesn't it?

What is Pluralitas even talking about? ISG doesn't have smoke atm, the faction has no smoke available anywhere, so... what is this? Pack Howi doesn't really need smoke as it brings down the building with standard shells quite efficiently. But giving smoke to both of them is fine, why not?

I've been playing USF a lot lately, and sure, I noticed that the mortar was kinda wiping and hitting stuff a little too reliably. Winning with it kind of felt cheap.

But holy shit when I tried playing some wehrmacht today: THAT really made me see how batshit OP the USF mortar is. If I even stopped with my grens for 5 seconds to aim and fire the LMG42, I would risk a wipe or at least being reduced to 10-30% HP. MG42 was completely unusable and barraged down immediately. It actually got 2 shot by the mortar with 2 successive shells. It's just a joke.

the best answer i've seen is that USF mortar was not needed but it is a nice addition for diversity. of course current OPness has to be dealt with.

i also think budwise has a really good point in saying why he thinks it should belong in a tier: RM > gren or volk.

but i think that will be too late for a mortar. i want to revive the idea of USF tiers divided into two sub tiers where vehicles would be locked behind another paywall. in my head both lieutenant and captain would be 30 fuel each (obviously BAR and zook should be looked at), and will come with mortar and 50cal / at gun and packhowie while m20 and m15aa / stuart would behind 100mp + 20/30fu paywall.

Is that about 1v1 mode? Not really a 1v1 player, but I'm sure it won't work against decent Wehrmacht player.
Your opponent will get better map control while you are sitting on 2 mortars and you won't see Stuart anytime soon. Instead there will be 444 which will rekt your REs, mortats and probably Cpt too.

In 2v2 this may work if you will be supported by your teammate.

In 4v4 it won't work, because once your mortars will be pushed out by Kubels/SPios/Volks/Grens you'll lose fuel point on your "lane" and won't get it back anytime soon because of long retreat path, so again no Stuart rush. REs just won't cut it.

Yes, this is a tandem 2v2 opening, also ive made it work consistently in 3v3 and 4v4, meaning 1 goes full screening infantry while you nuke the enemy infantry, grens and sturms WILL die if they bumrush the double mortars, even managed to force retreats on sturms vs RE's with volley fire, not cause of the RE's themselves, but cause suppresed infantry at close range is 100% dead next mortar autofire shot.

If grens try to shoot it out from cover, they will die to mortars in 2, 3 shots at max, the trick is placing the mortars forward, their accuracy is pretty much 80% at medium range.

Couple dat with an ambulance and you can reinforce cheaply with RE's AND heal endlessly while you nonstop bomb the enemy at a rate and accuracy they cant compete with.

[...]
i also think budwise has a really good point in saying why he thinks it should belong in a tier: RM > gren or volk.
[...]

But if USF player builds a mortar that means that there is less RM that could be > gren or volk, right? Riiiiight?

ah uh umm ahmm... w.o.r.d.l.e.s.s.



usf lacking diversity cannot be fixed by just simply adding one more t1 unit.

the best answer i've seen is that USF mortar was not needed but it is a nice addition for diversity. of course current OPness has to be dealt with.

i also think budwise has a really good point in saying why he thinks it should belong in a tier: RM > gren or volk.

but i think that will be too late for a mortar. i want to revive the idea of USF tiers divided into two sub tiers where vehicles would be locked behind another paywall. in my head both lieutenant and captain would be 30 fuel each (obviously BAR and zook should be looked at), and will come with mortar and 50cal / at gun and packhowie while m20 and m15aa / stuart would behind 100mp + 20/30fu paywall.

Dunno, but what is needed right now is a corrective patch for the mortar. USF mortar version that was in the balance mod wasn't game breaking at all.

Dunno, but what is needed right now is a corrective patch for the mortar. USF mortar version that was in the balance mod wasn't game breaking at all.

even the one in the offical balance mod had better than normal veterancy.

somehow the USF mortar we ended up with turns out to be even more powerful.

KYLE_RE from Relic on the official forums said there should be a patch this week? Firesparks noted that the vet was being applied 4 times? That's why there's no scatter after vet2?

They're questions because I'm not absolutely sure.

G43 grens are the only way to go now because stopping for 1 second means your gren is gonna die from the USF mortar

Not anymore, he has 82 health.

Thats true but once mortar hits your sniper you can as well just sit in base with him until you spend your first munition for medics