WC51 vs OKW - new patch

Mechanized doctrine is to be taken from a new point of view from my perspective.

The WC51 is clearly really good now that the chance to be shrecked by volks is gone. I haven't see a lot of Sturmshreck on 1vs1 because it now cost a lot of munition.

Yes I think now the shreck cost more than before simply because it is not anymore a no-brainer upgrade. Shreck added a lot of dps vs infantry to volks, with few shots on lights volks were getting fast xp. Today with the new OKW meta, the OKW player must upgrade STG on volks to get them last long and dps enough during the game. Don't take them too easily because they are good with those new toys.
But this force the OKW player to chose between AI and AT, and every minute of indecision or wrong decision let your WC51 being decisive.

First use it as chock unit and use the surprise you generate to inflict maximum damage and then cap your enemy critical points.
Second use it as transport to bring faster your squad to the frontline
And Thrid, use it as support from its max range to avoid hidden raketen/faust/shreck.

I add a replay, around ranks 120-150, I add some similar games before but didn't save the replay.
Replay WC51

Mechanized doctrine is to be taken from a new point of view from my perspective.

The WC51 is clearly really good now that the chance to be shrecked by volks is gone. I haven't see a lot of Sturmshreck on 1vs1 because it now cost a lot of munition.

Yes I think now the shreck cost more than before simply because it is not anymore a no-brainer upgrade. Shreck added a lot of dps vs infantry to volks, with few shots on lights volks were getting fast xp. Today with the new OKW meta, the OKW player must upgrade STG on volks to get them last long and dps enough during the game. Don't take them too easily because they are good with those new toys.
But this force the OKW player to chose between AI and AT, and every minute of indecision or wrong decision let your WC51 being decisive.

First use it as chock unit and use the surprise you generate to inflict maximum damage and then cap your enemy critical points.
Second use it as transport to bring faster your squad to the frontline
And Thrid, use it as support from its max range to avoid hidden raketen/faust/shreck.

I add a replay, around ranks 120-150, I add some similar games before but didn't save the replay.
Replay WC51

even kubelspam will rekt WC51 spam. Or one raketen. Or sturmpios that make it close enaught to outDPS that low armored "vehicle".

And btw, at time you get your first shreck before i could be spamming m20´s not only WC car. And one last think. Why then is WC spam not OP against ostheer when they have almost same at capabilities (you could almost get flaktrack when ostheer gets its 222)

even kubelspam will rekt WC51 spam. Or one raketen. Or sturmpios that make it close enaught to outDPS that low armored "vehicle".

And btw, at time you get your first shreck before i could be spamming m20´s not only WC car. And one last think. Why then is WC spam not OP against ostheer when they have almost same at capabilities (you could almost get flaktrack when ostheer gets its 222)

Spam? how do you want to spam WC51? Where did you read spam in my post? I'm talking about having 1 early WC51

Spam? how do you want to spam WC51? Where did you read spam in my post? I'm talking about having 1 early WC51

still nothing gamebreaking. Right now I´m much more worried about new penals ...

Really? The wc-51 really isn't any more durable then a kubel, If a sturmpio gets near it you can easily shred it.

Really? The wc-51 really isn't any more durable then a kubel, If a sturmpio gets near it you can easily shred it.

No offense but this is rather a skill issue than a problem with the WC51.

I actually think that the WC51 won't be all that much more better against okw. The reason why it could be cheesed against okw before was because you had time to exploit the time that volks didn't have their shrecks.

Now that volks have fausts it will be harder to chase down individual squads without risk of getting snared.

As already mentioned kubels and pios can still chunk down the WC51 quite well. Hopefully WC51 will get a buff soon like in mirageflas mod.

Watch the replay I posted and tell me how a Kubel and Sturm can chunk a WC51 with RM inside. Now if you are not microing it yes they can perfectly, there are also maps where the WC51 isn't the best option etc...

You are right when you say WC51 isn't better , it is the OKW that is less in position than before to counter it. The get to go Shreck isn't anymore relevant.

I actually think that the WC51 won't be all that much more better against okw. The reason why it could be cheesed against okw before was because you had time to exploit the time that volks didn't have their shrecks.

Now that volks have fausts it will be harder to chase down individual squads without risk of getting snared.

As already mentioned kubels and pios can still chunk down the WC51 quite well. Hopefully WC51 will get a buff soon like in mirageflas mod.

1 Raketten is enough, has always been the counter to it.

1 Raketten is enough, has always been the counter to it.

Yes but investing manpower early into a subpar AT gun can hurt quite a bit if you don't manage to kill the WC51 and the opponent uses the refit ability on the WC51 to get his resources back. Basically means you've wasted manpower and sacrificed map control.

Yes but investing manpower early into a subpar AT gun can hurt quite a bit if you don't manage to kill the WC51 and the opponent uses the refit ability on the WC51 to get his resources back. Basically means you've wasted manpower and sacrificed map control.

I do agree on that point, but mostly put it in a building will mean that he can't use a big portion of the map, which means you can consolidate your forces and set out together to cap/give a push.

I think best way to catch WC51 is to use camo on raketen.
I often get surprised by camouflaged raketen and lose my WC51.
In fact, I lost it to raketen + small arms more times than to schreks.

I saw how players mitigate negative side of investment into early raketen by using it for backcapping job. I think this is the way to go.

You will get much better map control if you invest into raketen, than if you let that thing to roam around.

double post

Raketen is indeed the way to go to counter it if you don't want to bleed too much.
In some map like minsk, I use it a lot as transport to bring back squads to the frontline.

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Is WC51 viable to counter OH sniper strat? Or should I just build more rifleman and try to attack him in other sectors?

Is WC51 viable to counter OH sniper strat? Or should I just build more rifleman and try to attack him in other sectors?

Obviously, chances to catch sniper with WC51 is better than if you have only rifleman.
IIRC WC51 (and all scout cars - M3A1, M20, 222, Kubel) have bonus accuracy against sniper, so they are kinda designed to kill it.
Ability to carry squad is another bonus - if you're chasing sniper and get fausted you can unload your RM and try to continue the chase to get couple more hits on it.

But I think you will have problems if you run into Wehrmacht player who knows what he doing.
We probably need an opinion of high ranked 1v1 USF player on this.

y'all stupid he asking for help on how to counter this play.

Gotta say I think it is harder now than before the patch. Dealing with one schreck on one squad was okay, you could just avoid it. Dealing with a faust on every volks squad is much more limiting. If you get hit once you are fucked because they will just bring more while you are damaged.

If they get a raketen it's gg for them, refit and get bars. Walk all over them.

I my opinion it is quite map dependend and how you pull it off. As an early-early game unit at maps like semoski it is quite potent if you support it with RM. Additionally you force your opponent to react to it by investing in a raketen, thus weaken his/her AI and create more space for your RM to cap and/or create good fighting positions. However, the Panzerfaust will only be a threat if the OKW player teched up, and you want to stall this with the WC51 not counter the building. I get rid of the WC51 asap to get my fuel back and use the highground I achieved with it in the first 4-5 mins. For OH it is not viable because they have their Panzerfaust since min one + Mg42 thus creating a threat since the time you call the WC51 in.
Summed up: Do not rush it unsupported into FOW and combine it with RM/RE to hit as hard as you can in the first minutes to push back the first pushs and make use of the maps properties and it will give you a good start into the game.