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Testing how mines work in the new patch

22 Jun 2016, 11:39 AM
#1
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 769 | Subs: 1

Hi all,

Being interested in the new mine changes, I decided to load up Cheat Mod and run a whole lot of tanks and infantry over mines to see what happens (spoiler: a lot of fun was involved).

I recorded some video, but I'd need to do a lot of editing before I could upload it. The results as I saw them were:

Vehicle Crits


  • Soviet TM-35, OKW Schu mines and Teller mines do NOT seem to cause immobilisation criticals any more.

    (EDIT: According to Cruzz, the Schu mine still has a 33% chance. My initial test must have beaten the odds. I'll test a larger number next time).

    They simply cause normal engine damage. TM-35s also do very little damage to tanks (tigers practically laugh them off), so don't rely on them for anything more than snaring.

  • Riegel mines ALWAYS cause immobilisation crits. They also do a large amount of damage, but not enough to one shot a Stuart (so less than a Teller). They also have a very large blast radius, so never plant them near each other.

  • M20 mines still ALWAYS cause an immobilisation crit. I largely agree with retaining this as a 60 munitions mine is not cheap, and it gives the M20 car a unique late game role that helps justify its purchase.

  • The bug where Teller mines are triggered without doing any damage or criticals is VERY MUCH still in existence. It can happen even when vehicles hit the mine head on. It may relate to changes in terrain. Tellers are still high damage, so when they do work they can 'one-shot' a Stuart or Scott.


Infantry Damage


  • TM-35 and Schu mines NEVER kill more than 2 models of a squad. A grenadier squad that bunches up on a Soviet mine will only lose 2 people and suffer no damage to the rest. This reflects the 30 munitions cost of such mines quite well and feels like a very good system to me.

    The one potential unintended consequence is that Soviet snipers will only ever lose one model to a single mine, leaving the remaining model on full health. The Wehrmacht sniper will still get one-shotted.

  • Suppression inflicted by mines is NOT implemented well. It is very inconsistent and plenty of Wehrmacht squads (regardless of how common or elite they were) did not experience any suppression when tripping some Soviet TM-35 mines.

    The only way I could get any Soviet infantry to become suppressed by Schu mines was to hit two of them very rapidly on negative cover. Their suppression values are clearly way too low unless Relic only wants them to complement HMGs.

    USF M5 mines (doctrinal) do not appear to cause any suppression, even if you trip them in fairly rapid succession.

  • Trip flare mines appear to only kill one unit as intended. They also cause a small amount of suppression, but not enough to suppress a squad from a single mine (several close together will suppress the squad. Also helps MGs suppress that unit faster if used together).


22 Jun 2016, 11:42 AM
#2
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Did you tested Defensive Tactics small anti-personnel mines?
What about M20 mines?
22 Jun 2016, 11:44 AM
#3
avatar of Qvazar

Posts: 881

Bump, Relic plz fix, I was looking forward to mines having suppression again :/
22 Jun 2016, 11:48 AM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 11:39 AMCyanara
Hi all,

  • Soviet TM-35 and OKW Schu mines do NOT cause immobilisation criticals any more. They simply cause normal engine damage. TM-35s also do very little damage to tanks, so don't rely on them for anything more than snaring.


This makes literally NO sense.

There isn't a single reason why schu mine would deal its 200dmg, but tm-35 not.
These two are identical, together with USF doctrinal and UKF mines.
22 Jun 2016, 11:53 AM
#5
avatar of skyshark

Posts: 239

Riegel mines ALWAYS cause immobilisation crits. They also do a large amount of damage, but not enough to one shot a Stuart. They also have a very large blast radius, so never plant them near each other.


so Riegel mines won't one-shot a Stuart, but Tellers will? i'm very confused.
22 Jun 2016, 11:56 AM
#6
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



so Riegel mines won't one-shot a Stuart, but Tellers will? i'm very confused.

Yes, rigels won't.

They always had lower dmg then tellers, but better crit.
22 Jun 2016, 12:14 PM
#7
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 769 | Subs: 1

Did you tested Defensive Tactics small anti-personnel mines?


Do they still exist? Didn't they get replaced with the m5 mines? I can't see any other type of mine for USF in the Cheat Mod.

What about M20 mines?


I was wondering that too so I ran a bunch more tests without bothering about video capture too much. See the my original post for edited results.
22 Jun 2016, 12:20 PM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 12:14 PMCyanara


Do they still exist? Didn't they get replaced with the m5 mines? I can't see any other type of mine for USF in the Cheat Mod.

Defensive doctrine is soviet doctrine.

You're thinking of USF small AT mines.
22 Jun 2016, 12:33 PM
#9
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 12:14 PMCyanara


Do they still exist? Didn't they get replaced with the m5 mines? I can't see any other type of mine for USF in the Cheat Mod.

I'm not sure if we understood each other correctly.

I've meant this Soviet Defensive Tactics commander


and these PMD-6 mines



EDIT: But it is OK that you don't even remember about him. :foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone:
22 Jun 2016, 12:35 PM
#10
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 769 | Subs: 1


I'm not sure if we understood each other correctly.

I've meant this Soviet Defensive Tactics commander


and these PMD-6 mines


Ah, ok. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use that doctrine (with good reason), so that probably has something to do with it :p
22 Jun 2016, 12:41 PM
#11
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 12:35 PMCyanara


Ah, ok. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use that doctrine (with good reason), so that probably has something to do with it :p

I predict that this commander will become viable at least in middle-tier ranks.
Now when TM-35 mines can kill only 2 models and Soviet become less reliant on doctrinal infantry and tanks, these small PMD-6 mines looks cost-effective and all team weapons can support T1 opening quite well.

By the way - you got great analysis here. Keep up the good work!
The more info Relic will get on these bugs, the sooner we will get our patch!
22 Jun 2016, 12:46 PM
#12
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 12:35 PMCyanara


Ah, ok. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use that doctrine (with good reason), so that probably has something to do with it :p


In fact I had great 2v2 games with this doctrine against top 50 AT :bananadance:
Penals' changes also indirectly buffed this doctrine.
Same for T34 and SU85 buffs.

With current changes to mines, these little AI mines can become best mines in game :hansWUT:
22 Jun 2016, 12:55 PM
#13
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 769 | Subs: 1


I predict that this commander will become viable at least in middle-tier ranks.
Now when TM-35 mines can kill only 2 models and Soviet become less reliant on doctrinal infantry and tanks, these small PMD-6 mines looks cost-effective and all team weapons can support T1 opening quite well.



With current changes to mines, these little AI mines can become best mines in game :hansWUT:


Well, alrighty then. I'll test them out and add them to the list tomorrow :)
22 Jun 2016, 12:58 PM
#14
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 11:39 AMCyanara

TM-35s also do very little damage to tanks (tigers practically laugh them off), so don't rely on them for anything more than snaring.


Does the reduced damage apply to all general-purpose mines (OKW, UKF, Soviet and USF-doctrinal), or is this only limited to Soviet TM-35 mines?

If it's just the Soviet mines, then it looks like Relic has found a way to hit the sweet spot (just copy-paste UKF-mine stats to TM-35 stats, and it's fixed). Otherwise, anti-vehicle damage needs to be upped (else everyone will just super-glue their tanks).
22 Jun 2016, 13:00 PM
#15
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

I made a small test.

They don't cause any suppression at all, so you can plant them in a line and watch how squad is getting wiped with each step.

Awesome.
22 Jun 2016, 13:21 PM
#16
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 769 | Subs: 1



Does the reduced damage apply to all general-purpose mines (OKW, UKF, Soviet and USF-doctrinal), or is this only limited to Soviet TM-35 mines?

If it's just the Soviet mines, then it looks like Relic has found a way to hit the sweet spot (just copy-paste UKF-mine stats to TM-35 stats, and it's fixed). Otherwise, anti-vehicle damage needs to be upped (else everyone will just super-glue their tanks).


I'll check, but I think it was just the Soviet mines. I'm not sure if it actually changed this patch, but if it did it may have been left over from when they experimented with reduced damage (according to the patch notes).
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