Calliope OP?

This is the unit I personally feel needs rebalancing the most:

- Almost impossible to kill unlike other mobile arty like Stukas or katushas cause...well..its a TANK.
- Therefore heavily promotes defensive camping playstyle where u just bleed out your opponents manpower by constant barraging.
- Very low popcap for this unit makes it quite spammable.
- Does massive damage per rocket.
- Shoot a massive amount of rockets.
- Kills units/squads on retreat like flies. Defensive bonuses when on retreat seem almost completely negated. It's really not uncommon for me to lose 2 squads instantly to a barrage when I'm just a fraction of a second too late with my retreat, very much unlike other arty barrages in the game.

All in all in it's current form I personally find this unit to be nothing but OP cheese. It promotes a playstyle that I heavily dislike (campy, non mobile, non flanking).

A bit of a disclaimer here is that my experience mostly comes from a lot of 2v2's. Not really sure how this unit works out in 1v1, but in 2v2 I think it's as close to broken as they get personally.

From now on I propose a namechange for this unit to: CalliOP.

Like stukas under aa ht protection is possible to kill.

Does 80 damage per rocket same as panzerwerfer and katusha.

Any rocket artillery kills squads on retreat, okay?

For 140 fuel i would expect it to do what it does.

How exactly a unit that "heavily promotes defensive camping playstyle" on a faction that insta loses if stops being aggressive is an advantage again?

As for pretty much every single point you've made, you're 6 months late, unit was nerfed long time ago and is fine.

How exactly a unit that "heavily promotes defensive camping playstyle" on a faction that insta loses if stops being aggressive is an advantage again?

As for pretty much every single point you've made, you're 6 months late, unit was nerfed long time ago and is fine.

As I said: my experiences come from 2v2ing, and different rules apply there. A US player going for 1/2 Calli's together with a britplayer can prove to be a very campy nightmare.

Don't really see why you'd discuss a 6 month old nerf here to be honest, since I'm simply debating the unit in its current form, the fact that it mightve been even more op in the past is irrelevant.

And you're still wrong.

I'm mainly 2v2 player as well btw.

And you're still wrong.

I'm mainly 2v2 player as well btw.

Lol arrogant much?

Lol arrogant much?

Coming from someone who doesn't even know the stats of unit he whines at

I personally think the fuel cost is a tad high. Having higher durability than its equivalents is not that much of an advantage, because if your opponent can pull off yoloing into your territories with medium vehicles to kill your arty piece then he certainly will succeed to do that, be it a PW, katy or calliope.

Haha you hardly play games man.

I personally think the fuel cost is a tad high. Having higher durability than its equivalents is not that much of an advantage, because if your opponent can pull off yoloing into your territories with medium vehicles to kill your arty piece then he certainly will succeed to do that, be it a PW, katy or calliope.

Totally disagree since one good arty barrage can destroy stukas or katushas, but not a Calli. One good AC rush of the Ostheerfaction can destroy a Kat, but similar mechanics dont exist vs Calli's. Rushing into enemy territory and being able to do enough damage to his Callis to actually kill them would require your opponent to be a massive noob imo.

Also: im very open to hear counterarguments folks, but can the kids who just want to keep owning as allies without ever playing any axis faction stay away please?

This is the unit I personally feel needs rebalancing the most:

1.- Almost impossible to kill unlike other mobile arty like Stukas or katushas cause...well..its a TANK.
2.- Therefore heavily promotes defensive camping playstyle where u just bleed out your opponents manpower by constant barraging.
3.- Very low popcap for this unit makes it quite spammable.
4.- Does massive damage per rocket.
5.- Shoot a massive amount of rockets.
6.- Kills units/squads on retreat like flies. Defensive bonuses when on retreat seem almost completely negated. It's really not uncommon for me to lose 2 squads instantly to a barrage when I'm just a fraction of a second too late with my retreat, very much unlike other arty barrages in the game.

All in all in it's current form I personally find this unit to be nothing but OP cheese. It promotes a playstyle that I heavily dislike (campy, non mobile, non flanking).

A bit of a disclaimer here is that my experience mostly comes from a lot of 2v2's. Not really sure how this unit works out in 1v1, but in 2v2 I think it's as close to broken as they get personally.

From now on I propose a namechange for this unit to: CalliOP.

1. this is a problem. 640hp with that range is weird. because the range is long enough that calliope does not require extra tanki-ness to survive while barraging.

so it works like katyusha in terms of how players move up and back when barraging. and obviously it does not promote good flanks from anybody versing it.

i rather make it 320hp or give like 800 or 960 hp and shorten its range so it can barrage maybe about 40 range? a bit like sturmtiger.

this argument of 'oh its 140 fuel so it deserves 640hp' is a cop out. when your sov teammate can get katyusha or you (US) can get a calliope, do you choose calliope because it has extra health? no, you choose calliope (when affordable) because it wipes much better.

2. just because calliope is tankier than its counterparts, that does not mean it makes defensive play more effective. i agree having unit wiping units help defensive plays but even if calliope had 320hp, it will promote same kind of defensive plays.

3,4&6. 140fuel is not spammable at all. seeing how as USF, you need at least one jackson plus other AT to effectively stay AT competitive.

same damage i am pretty sure.

defensive bonuses when retreating is reduced received accuracy which has no effect with any explosives.

5. this is also a problem. I do not want to derail your thread, but this is a part of a much bigger problems, all squad wiping explosives that are almost impossible to dodge.

the nerf of 22 rockets to 18 rockets? did almost nothing because calliope still fires 10 rockets in its first salvo which can handily wipe squads on its own.

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calliope is expensive and not uncrewable which are big things. but no matter the cost, the wipe-ability of calliope's scale is inexcusable. dont blob dont count because it can wipe one squad by itself consistently as well. not as consistently as ST or demo or goliath but still.

stuff

Pls, before you start discussing about some "OP" units learn terminology. If thread name is not CalliOP ? then you dont know much about game in general and you should not make threads about balance

#1: playercard pls

#2: as long as the land mattress and mortar pit exist, every thread about a different indirect fire unit should be locked

#1: playercard pls

+ 1

I think the Calli is mostly OK. Perhaps a few minor tweaks but it is expensive and you sacrifice armour presence going for them.

This is the unit I personally feel needs rebalancing the most:

- Almost impossible to kill unlike other mobile arty like Stukas or katushas cause...well..its a TANK.

Its expensive, you would expect it to be more durable than everything else (it is a tank afterall....).Is there a reason you have not brought up the fact that Katy & Pzwerfer have 160 HP while Stuka has 320 as well? What about the armour differences between Katy, Pzwerfer & Stuka?

- Therefore heavily promotes defensive camping playstyle where u just bleed out your opponents manpower by constant barraging.

Turning USF into a camping playstyle just hurts the faction. It is designed to be a mobile and aggressive faction. Also You can dodge the Calli anyway.

- Very low popcap for this unit makes it quite spammable.

While the pop cap in relation to cost isn't the same as similar units, its pop cap is. Not sure how this makes it any more spammable than other rocket arty considering its price.

- Does massive damage per rocket.

Does the same damage as the Katy & Pzwerfer. Only the stuka has more damage per rocket but it fires far fewer.

- Shoot a massive amount of rockets.

Although it does fire quite a lot of rockets, they are in waves so its really only the first wave that is truly effective.

- Kills units/squads on retreat like flies. Defensive bonuses when on retreat seem almost completely negated. It's really not uncommon for me to lose 2 squads instantly to a barrage when I'm just a fraction of a second too late with my retreat, very much unlike other arty barrages in the game.

Retreat based defense bonuses offer no protection against any explosive damage as far as I'm aware, as it gives reduced accuracy vs the unit / squad which explosives don't care about.

A bit of a disclaimer here is that my experience mostly comes from a lot of 2v2's. Not really sure how this unit works out in 1v1, but in 2v2 I think it's as close to broken as they get personally.

What ranking is this experience from?

(Also You can dodge the Calli anyway)

dont laugh us,pls! so u can dodge it? are u david cooperfield? atleast u lost some infantries even in long range . btw most dodgable unit is stuka(linear)

1. this is a problem. 640hp with that range is weird. because the range is long enough that calliope does not require extra tanki-ness to survive while barraging.

so it works like katyusha in terms of how players move up and back when barraging. and obviously it does not promote good flanks from anybody versing it.

i rather make it 320hp or give like 800 or 960 hp and shorten its range so it can barrage maybe about 40 range? a bit like sturmtiger.

this argument of 'oh its 140 fuel so it deserves 640hp' is a cop out. when your sov teammate can get katyusha or you (US) can get a calliope, do you choose calliope because it has extra health? no, you choose calliope (when affordable) because it wipes much better.

2. just because calliope is tankier than its counterparts, that does not mean it makes defensive play more effective. i agree having unit wiping units help defensive plays but even if calliope had 320hp, it will promote same kind of defensive plays.

3,4&6. 140fuel is not spammable at all. seeing how as USF, you need at least one jackson plus other AT to effectively stay AT competitive.

same damage i am pretty sure.

defensive bonuses when retreating is reduced received accuracy which has no effect with any explosives.

5. this is also a problem. I do not want to derail your thread, but this is a part of a much bigger problems, all squad wiping explosives that are almost impossible to dodge.

the nerf of 22 rockets to 18 rockets? did almost nothing because calliope still fires 10 rockets in its first salvo which can handily wipe squads on its own.

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calliope is expensive and not uncrewable which are big things. but no matter the cost, the wipe-ability of calliope's scale is inexcusable. dont blob dont count because it can wipe one squad by itself consistently as well. not as consistently as ST or demo or goliath but still.

Thanks for, what is in my opinion, pretty much the only intelligent reply in this topic so far (and hence the only one I will bother replying to).

1. Fully agree, such a range, such a truckload of damage combined with such a truckload of hp is insane. Units like these should be glass cannons imo, there is a risk going for them (theyre fragile), but the reward can be worth it. Here, the risk seems minimal.

2. I think the reason the Calli promotes defensive play (especially in 2v2s) is because the unit is pretty much one of the best defensive options in the game right now. Especially combined with a decent brit player you can untick all the bigger maps with a lot of flank options, and your calli is golden. It will be pretty much unkillable with any kind of decent defensive accompanying it, and can shoot all over the map.

3/4. I meant spammable in terms of popcap. We all know those lategame 2v2s that eventually mean u reach 100/100 and have to make hard choices of what your army composition will be. Afaik the popcap of Calli's is very low isn't it? I do agree with you that the fuel cost of 140 is high enough as it is.

5. So many of these lategame 2v2's (especially on smaller maps!) turn into big arty, campy games where it's impossible to micro in a way that u can make a difference anymore. The Calli, by design, is a prime example of this because it fires an absolute whirlwind of rockets, and wipes squads WAY too fast. I've had a good couple of close, exciting games now where I hear a Calli fire, mash my retreat button, and then still lose 2 squads on retreats making it almost insta-gg basically. It just feels like easymode for the person using the Calli imo.

#1: playercard pls

#2: as long as the land mattress and mortar pit exist, every thread about a different indirect fire unit should be locked

Mortar Pit is only OP in cancer commander, try it without Bofor and see how well you can control the map. LM is OP no doubt but I would take normal mortar over Pits anyday unless playing Sim City.

Land Matress is the only unit with similar role OP atm, but it is getting nerfed next patch. Calli is no longer op imo.

/close