Possible solution to the mortar pit problem.

Alright so, I will try to cover both ends here so bare with me.

How about, Relic, or whoever is making the Balance preview, adds the 3-inch mortar to the Brits, using either the GrW 34 model or the 3-inch one from the mortar pit but with it's own, fully developed animations, and since I don't believe they'd do that (if they haven't already) just for a balance preview, looking at the American one, let's go with the GrW 34 model.

Alright, so far so good, put it in Tier 2 and then, make the mortar pit only unlockable besides the Bofors, so one upgrade, unlocks these 2 emplacements, the Bofors and the Mortar pit, making it either 20 or 25/30 (35 at the max, or else the British player is investing a tad too much into a better in-direct fire and stalling teching) fuel and either the same man power cost or 200, I don't know. I was thinking of adding the mortar team to the AEC unlock but that would be mean limiting the British player too much in the in-direct fire department so if you don't choose Bofors + Mortar pit, you're basically stuck with the AEC and Base 25 pounders for the rest of the game as far as in-direct fire goes.

This is a stop gap solution to 3 problems, one is the whining about the bofors (increasing the unlock price, delaying it, effectively), the other is the whining about the mortar pit (same thing as the bofors I already mentioned), the 3rd is the need for a more mobile in-direct fire substitute for the mortar pit by default (not doctrinal one, as in the land mattress) for more mobile friendly and aggressive British players. Having the mortar pit be built without the mortars themselves is a nice idea, making it a sort of a fixed position which can be garrisoned with bonuses to the mortar's fire rate (or range) like the vicker's range bonus when garrisoned and at vet 1, the problem then would be that it would be a bit overlapping with the trench in terms of what it does. The only other problem I see here is if it's possible to do, I mean, in terms of modding I think it can be done, when built the mortar pit will spawn with the mortars but they won't be manned, but the idea here is not have the mortars be manned but make it so the mortar pit can accommodate the 2 types of support weapons, or even at least the mortars, but then again why the need for it when you have the trenches which are basically acting the same way?

As far as the mortar pit itself goes, making it spawn unmanned and in need to be either garrisoned or in range of the forward assembly is also a solution but a very costly one to the British player in terms of man power, which is very thinly stretched as it is with the cost of the squads themselves and their reinforcing, excluding the royal engineers.

Just my 2 cents on the subject as a modder and mostly British/OKW player, have a nice day.

Make it an upgrade mortar pit OR aec OR Bofors

Add normal mortar.

a more simple solution is to just lower the auto fire range. you will still have the 115 meter barrage range to deal with camper, but the emplacement can't hold down a significant portion of the map.

Some good suggestions

Make it an upgrade mortar pit OR aec OR Bofors

Add normal mortar.

So 3 upgrades to Tier 2? Alright then, I just hope the mobile mortar is worth it, but that could lead to some very awarding team games then, one goes for Bofors, while the other goes for mortar pits.

Edit: How about a 3rd upgrade to tier 3 then that just unlocks both of the special tanks but none of their specialization's bonuses?

a more simple solution is to just lower the auto fire range. you will still have the 115 meter barrage range to deal with camper, but the emplacement can't hold down a significant portion of the map.

What I'm trying to do here is balance things out by changing how they work or are obtained rather than buffing or nerfing their stats, plus that still isn't a solution to the more non-doc mobile in?direct fire question for more mobile and aggressive British players.

Lower auto fire range massively, that way it must be microed.

Lower auto fire range massively, that way it must be microed.

How do you micro a static emplacement? If targetting the barrage ability is micro to you that means all ground attack abilities are micro as well, which it is not.

All I want is a normal mortar. They can just throw the mortar pit away, it doesn't really matter to me anyway! I mean, like, you invest 400 mp for something that only score like 8-10 kills the entire match and it can't be move up to support. Right now I just use the Land Mattress because at least the bloody thing can move. (Perspective from an aggressive Brit player so if you don't agree, it's fine)

Actually, how about an upgrade for UC to have a mortar on it (doc or non-doc, I don't know), so the UC will act like a British mortar halftrack. That would be nice!

Your method is too complicated for Relic just do what Firesparky said and reduce range and leave the barrage range alone
If if axis hatetrain circlejerk fanboys start complaining about lack of Brit stock arty units and starts comparing other faction arty units just increase the barrage time or reduce the reduce ability cooldown so you can blow up far away places more/longer it makes Wehrmacht so hard to play especially in 2v2 as your squads constantly get instawiped or close to death

P.S Make Mortar pits unbuildable in base its gay in 1v1 how hard to kill this thing is just make it like other Arty Emplacements and only buildable outside of base so you can attack it without off maps/arty units Show Spoiler

All I want is a normal mortar. They can just throw the mortar pit away, it doesn't really matter to me anyway! I mean, like, you invest 400 mp for something that only score like 8-10 kills the entire match and it can't be move up to support. Right now I just use the Land Mattress because at least the bloody thing can move. (Perspective from an aggressive Brit player so if you don't agree, it's fine)

Actually, how about an upgrade for UC to have a mortar on it (doc or non-doc, I don't know), so the UC will act like a British mortar halftrack. That would be nice!

I understand, you're part of the people I was trying to target with the change of giving you guys a mobile in-direct non-doc fire support weapon that also doesn't cost fuel. And believe me, the power of the mortar pit can be very well felt in large team games but it's limited use a static emplacement can also be largely felt.

As far as the UC upgrades go, I even made a topic about it during the UKF Alpha, my suggested upgrades were bringing back the normal Vickers MMG upgrade for it back from CoH where it was brilliantly made into a mobile suppression platform, something like the pre-overhaul OKW Kubelwagen, just not as dumb I suppose.

The problem is that the model we have in game is too short/small to accommodate anything larger than a vickers or a boys .55 caliber anti-tank rifle, since the Australians made a UC/Bren carrier variant with a longer/larger chassis which allowed them to mount even 2 pounders on them, hell the Germans that captured them even mounted flak-verlings, or quad AA guns for those that are unaware of what I'm talking about.

Your method is too complicated for Relic just do what Firesparky said and reduce range and leave the barrage range alone
If if axis hatetrain circlejerk fanboys start complaining about lack of Brit stock arty units and starts comparing other faction arty units just increase the barrage time or reduce the reduce ability cooldown so you can blow up far away places more/longer it makes Wehrmacht so hard to play especially in 2v2 as your squads constantly get instawiped or close to death

P.S Make Mortar pits unbuildable in base its gay in 1v1 how hard to kill this thing is just make it like other Arty Emplacements and only buildable outside of base so you can attack it without off maps/arty units Show Spoiler

My method can be done by me or any other modder for that matter in less than 5 minutes, and considering the Balance Preview largely consists of the Competitive Edition mod, your argument is generally, in-valid.

And why are most of you Australians so weird? lol

Edit: The method I AM SURE OF, not the method I am not sure of, that being the mortar pit getting turned into a sort of fixed position, like a trench. But I am fairly sure that the unmanned mortar pits with already spawned mortars but no spawned crew can work, I haven't attempted it yet because I haven't touched the tools in a long time and I explain that earlier in the comments.

My method can be done by me or any other modder for that matter in less than 5 minutes, and considering the Balance Preview largely consists of the Competitive Edition mod, your argument is generally, in-valid.

And why are most of you Australians so weird? lol

Edit: The method I AM SURE OF, not the method I am not sure of, that being the mortar pit getting turned into a sort of fixed position, like a trench. But I am fairly sure that the unmanned mortar pits with already spawned mortars but no spawned crew can work, I haven't attempted it yet because I haven't touched the tools in a long time and I explain that earlier in the comments.

Yeah but reduced ranges requires less testing and with Relic using us as guinea pigs they dont make big "5 minute" changes like yours no more now if you really want a change gotta make a mod for that bud and a popular one at that

Yeah but reduced ranges requires less testing and with Relic using us as guinea pigs they dont make big "5 minute" changes like yours no more now if you really want a change gotta make a mod for that bud and a popular one at that

Big 5 minute changes? Are you serious? And no please don't use Competitive Mod as an example, nobody out of the competitive scene knows about the mod, or at least uses it extensively, the most popular mod out there is All Units one, which has a British mortar in it mind you, and a hell of a lot of other units that make the game un-fun, cluttered and spammy for me. So yeah, while it is possible for me to try and make this, I don't believe it will be popular or practical just to prove my point, especially with an update soon in-bound with the new War Spoils system.

Big 5 minute changes? Are you serious? And no please don't use Competitive Mod as an example, nobody out of the competitive scene knows about the mod, or at least uses it extensively, the most popular mod out there is All Units one, which has a British mortar in it mind you, and a hell of a lot of other units that make the game un-fun, cluttered and spammy for me. So yeah, while it is possible for me to try and make this, I don't believe it will be popular or practical just to prove my point, especially with an update soon in-bound with the new War Spoils system.

Say I increase Grenadiers, damage from 16 to 17, a small quick change, mind you, it would need to be, tested against every other, enemy squad it will encounter, ingame multiple times, within many different vairables, such as different cover, health percentage, range etc, and then tested by actual testers, to see how much it changes, the current playstyle as, it affects not only that faction, but all teh factions, it is fighting and in 2v2 and higher, it affects different team combinations, so that will need to be tested, the bigger the change, the more testing and there is a bunch of other shit idk that they test Katitof is a dev of some game or something you can ask him he knows
and all units mod is an imbalanced wreck, no making it balance, its a mod for fun, not for competitive play, which mirages mod is, thats why relic, likes mirage mod, all balance changes are done with, competitive multiplayer in mind, doesnt matter how stupid it sounds to you, thats the way the game, goes round

How do you micro a static emplacement? If targetting the barrage ability is micro to you that means all ground attack abilities are micro as well, which it is not.

Micro as in clicking on emplacement, right clicking on enemy. That way there are more things to click apart from leaving it there to snipe out to max range.

Actually, no, not even micro, just point and click.

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Oh, and the UC was usually upgraded with Panzershrecks I think when captured by Germans.

http://beutepanzer.ru/Beutepanzer/uk/APC_universal/3PzGrDiv.htm

So 3 upgrades to Tier 2? Alright then, I just hope the mobile mortar is worth it, but that could lead to some very awarding team games then, one goes for Bofors, while the other goes for mortar pits.

How is that more rewarding now when both brits can get both a bofors and a mortar pit?

Micro as in clicking on emplacement, right clicking on enemy. That way there are more things to click apart from leaving it there to snipe out to max range.

Actually, no, not even micro, just point and click.

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Oh, and the UC was usually upgraded with Panzershrecks I think when captured by Germans.

http://beutepanzer.ru/Beutepanzer/uk/APC_universal/3PzGrDiv.htm

I'd consider that more like babysitting your emplacement, a far better and less baby-sitting solution would be giving the Brits an actual mobile mortar team.

Nice find with the Brens btw, I was surprised they could even mount a flak verling on it.

How is that more rewarding now when both brits can get both a bofors and a mortar pit?

It's not rewarding right now as a British player has access to both of them, but if your suggestion goes through for a 3rd upgrade which unlocks the mortar pit, it would be more rewarding when 2 British players decide that one is going to go for the bofors while the other goes for the mortar pit and they built it in a single, well defended position, effectively killing the lonesome sim-city makers of 1v1s and 2v2s basically, this would require a lot of coordination and more specifically both of the players going Brits which I don't know how often that happens if it's not in an arranged team match.

Actually even without the mobile mortar, just separating the mortar and the Bofors into mutually exclusive unlocks is an awesome idea.

Which brings me to the following point: why would the AEC be behind an unlock anyway? I would say that the role and the effectiveness of the AEC do not require it being an exclusive in order to be balanced. In the beta its extra tech unlock may have been justified but the game has moved on a lot since then. Increase AEC cost by 50/10 if you must for timing purposes but make it always unlocked. It would have literally zero effect on gameplay, except a player could now have both the Bofors and the AEC at the same time, which I just don't see as some game breaking synergy. Yes a player could lock down a part of the map with a Bofors while harassing the other part with an AEC but the combined fuel cost of both means by the time this would be possible Axis should already have a lot of viable options to chase the AEC away

Bofors or Mortar pit should be the 2 mutually exclusive upgrades. This will solve a lot of problems, as already outlined above - without the synergy of both, they will be more manageable. You want the awesomeness that is Bofors, you pay by giving up indirect fire, and vice versa.

But I wouldn't mind any of the solutions outlined in this thread.