Armor Company is Highly Overrated

Armor company pisses me off!!!

Why?

Because without a doubt it is the one of the worst commanders in the game. But the community seems to ignore it heavily. Some even tout it as one of the best doctrines.

And why is that?

Because M10 can crush...

So lets break it down:

Advanced Vehicle Crews
Basically an empty slot and the 2 year holder of worst commander ability award. Because who doesn't want to spend 90 muni on a squad with 0 combat vet and abilities.

And don't give that shit about switching them out with RE. If that's what Relic wanted they would have just given it to REs and avoided the whole redundancy of switching them.


Assault engineers
Sure these guys are good opening units, but even early on they are sort of mediocre. But that's not so bad, they also give you access to mines and flamethrowers, which is great.

Unfortunately they are a 4 men close combat squad with little to no defensive scaling they won't last. They simply can't do their job wothout getting killed as the game progresses and you'll be lucky if they survive the mid game, let alone the late game.

280mm Artillery Barrage
Not the worst call-in strike, but let's be honest, no one is picking this commander for this ability. Highly erratic results and highly expensive. Perhaps the only ability I've seen cause the person using it to lose the game.


105mm Sherman
Because who doesn't want to spend more for a sherman that can kill infantry a tiny bit better then a regular sherman... maybe. Sure it has a bit better health and armor but schreks still seem to pen it rather reliably.

One things for sure it ain't no KV-8 and given it's role and price, I kind of expect it to be. But you can always get one if you want a Anti-infantry tank that spends more time running from schrek blobs then killing it.


M10 Wolverine
Ah, the great M10! Who doesn't love it! A great flanking tank destroyer and it's cheap enough to be spammed in great numbers to overwhelm your enemies. Good thing it's easily countered by infantry.

Oh wait.. that's right it can't. Gren going to snare you? Crush. Schreks going to kill you? Crush. Because what's better then a hard AT unit that can kill infantry thanks to a silly mechanic. I mean that's the way it was in vCOH and vCOH was perfect and never did anything wrong

What should be done?

• Remove crush from the M10. It's a tank destroyer and a cheap one at that. Players shouldn't be able to just suddenly turn it into one of the best infantry killers just because they are good enough to make it do a little dance.
  
• Put the 105 into the majors building. We've already determined that using doctrines to skip out on teching is already a bad idea. I have no idea why Relic decided that armor company should be the exception.
  
• Give the 105 more range, armor, or faster rof. Something so that's it's actually better at what it does then it's cheaper multi-role brother.
  
• Change assualt engis vet 2 to give them an extra man (no not vet 3 you goobs they'll be dead by then)
  
• Do anything to Advanced Vehicle crews! Literally anything is better then what it is right now! Just stop ignoring it! Please!
  
  Do what needs to be done. Expose armor company for the shitty gimmick commander it is, and then fix it!
  
  
  

Vehicle crews with thompsons are actually very, very deadly.

Remove crush from the M10.

But leave crush on the Panther? Cromwell? Every other tank?

Good one.

Crush is frustrating but not that big of a deal and can certainly be countered. Playing a 1v1 awhile ago where I got over zealous in my crushing, so the guy intentionally blobbed up and baited me into a mine / faust, then blew away my M10 with Pak-40s. It was a great play.

Crush is one of the more micro-intensive elements of this game, both using it and countering it. Every vehicle can do it to an extent, and it makes no sense to remove it from the M10 because it's good / better at it than everything else (although the Cromwell gives it a run for its money, T-34/76 ain't bad either).

it makes no sense to remove it from the M10 because it's good / better at it than everything else

That's actually a good reason TO remove it.

I don't mind on the cromwell and panther because these are somewhat generalist vihicles, but also more importantly because it's much cheaper. Players are much more likely to risk the M10 because they know they can get another easier makes it much more prevelant. The fact that it's the best at it only makes that worse.

Units shouldn't be able to act outside their roles so drematically. Let's be honest, if a ostwind could destroy a sherman by doing a little donut, I think people would be pretty pissed. And it's not like it's just a one off feature. It's common tactic used by any good player player using the commander. Hell I do it all the time! Doesn't make it right.

120 fuel saved is 120 fuel saved.

Removing crush is stupid, your tank will get stunk and bump in any object on the ground while it need its speed to flank.

Removing crush is stupid, your tank will get stunk and bump in any object on the ground while it need its speed to flank.

Wrong crush.

Don't start me on how "useful" are some Wehrmacht doctrines!!!

I watched an ESL replay that used thompson vehicle crews to surprisingly deadly effect. Speed past a support weapon in the M10 and then pop out and destroy it in seconds.

What? If you dont like it that doesnt mean it sucks. M10>jackson, speed, anti inf, price

Assault engineers are good. Mines, demos, wire, flamer...

Sherman is fine, anti inf beast and can build tanktraps.

Thompsons are shit

Arty is for area denial, oneshots everything if hits

Don't start me on how "useful" are some Wehrmacht doctrines!!!

I can't say much for whermacht doctrines since there are so many. But I can't think of a whermacht commander ability that is legitimately bad or not useful in some way.

Also you should feel bad for trying to derail the thread with a post that's not even really relevant. No one is talking about wher.

What? If you dont like it that doesnt mean it sucks. M10>jackson, speed, anti inf, price

Did.. did you even read the post? I never said the M10 was bad at all.

Did.. did you even read the post? I never said the M10 was bad at all.

How many m10 commanders there are

How many m10 commanders there are

So you didn't read the post

i try using other docs in 1v1 but armor is the one i always gravitate back to.

yes m10s are op crushers but theyre main opness is being fuel coupons.... when you've had a cutoff fest of a game, theyre invaluable.


+youre underestimating vehicle crew thompson + ass engy tactical control group on the right map. Dont use them on langres, dont use them to charge up. ambush and watch them shred. otherwise you're setting them up to fail.

Youre also wrong about offensive vet, they get vet 3 pretty quick which includes -29% received accuracy, making them decently durable.

The arty offmap is tied with mech arty for being the best usf has, except its more situational so i guess the edge goes to mech arty.

the dozer is worthless shit garbage diarrhea, i give you that, but thats it. the other parts of the doc are solid.

i try using other docs in 1v1 but armor is the one i always gravitate back to.

yes m10s are op crushers but theyre main opness is being fuel coupons.... when you've had a cutoff fest of a game, theyre invaluable.


+youre underestimating vehicle crew thompson + ass engy tactical control group on the right map. Dont use them on langres, dont use them to charge up. ambush and watch them shred. otherwise you're setting them up to fail.

Youre also wrong about offensive vet, they get vet 3 pretty quick which includes -29% received accuracy, making them decently durable.

The arty offmap is tied with mech arty for being the best usf has, except its more situational so i guess the edge goes to mech arty.

the dozer is worthless shit garbage diarrhea, i give you that, but thats it. the other parts of the doc are solid.

Ass Eng best feature is flamer demo and crit repair, for everything else they are over price wannabe Sturmpio.
240mm arty is unreliable as hell, that thing is 50% a waste of muni.
People pick Armor for M10, everything else is extra ice on the cake.

Ass Eng best feature is flamer demo and crit repair, for everything else they are over price wannabe Sturmpio.
240mm arty is unreliable as hell, that thing is 50% a waste of muni.
People pick Armor for M10, everything else is extra ice on the cake.

well I agree I guess, even though you dont see sturmpios charging up to just about anybody past the early game and doing anything productive either, unless properly positioned and supported. Thats just a grass is greneer on the other side mentality. they reinforce for the same cost and AE's cost less than sturmpios.

the flamer is always a great reason to buy them because as long as the game has buildings then you can call up your ass engies to help clear it, again especially when you dont send them in alone to do it.

how is 240 unreliable? it does its job, if you want an area full of enemies to not be full of enemies anymore then drop it. its as reliable as it gets in that regard and with armor idk why but i always float munis even barzooking everything with thompsons.

you can also do it during a big m10 push, but dont bring your infantry along cuz i've had some bad moments thinking the barrage was over and then....(poof)

105 mm sherman don't kills infantry much better than regular sherman but cost way more and much slower. What is reasons to buy it?

well I agree I guess, even though you dont see sturmpios charging up to just about anybody past the early game and doing anything productive either, unless properly positioned and supported. Thats just a grass is greneer on the other side mentality. they reinforce for the same cost and AE's cost less than sturmpios.

the flamer is always a great reason to buy them because as long as the game has buildings then you can call up your ass engies to help clear it, again especially when you dont send them in alone to do it.

how is 240 unreliable? it does its job, if you want an area full of enemies to not be full of enemies anymore then drop it. its as reliable as it gets in that regard and with armor idk why but i always float munis even barzooking everything with thompsons.

you can also do it during a big m10 push, but dont bring your infantry along cuz i've had some bad moments thinking the barrage was over and then....(poof)

I once call a 240mm barrage on Flak Truck and none of the shells hit it, unless the whole sector is crowded with enemies the results tend to be... varying.
Sturmpio reinforce for 32mp, AE 35mp and they scale really poorly compared to Sturmpio. I would prefer AE to armed with M1 Carbine and drop their reinforce cost to like 28-30mp. You can never have more than 1 of them cuz they bleed mp like crazy.

Assault Engineers have niche applications and the M10 is good. Not one of the best doctrines, sure, but there are loads of commanders that are worse than this one. See, uh, NKVD Tactics and German Infantry Doctrine.