The Problem
Captain tier:
AT units:
- Captain zooks
- AT gun
- Stuart (counter to 222, 251 and Luchs)
No suppression units.
Lieutenant:
Suppression units:
- M2HB
- AA HT
No AT units.
M20 Utility car has AT mines, but this is a sort of "passive" AT solution. When M20 car is spotted, opponent will get minesweepers.
Lieutenant himself doesn't have AT nade.
Suggestion
Swap AA HT and AT gun.
Swap units between USF tech tiers
1 May 2016, 02:31 AM
#1
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
1 May 2016, 02:36 AM
#2
Posts: 513
Actually a decent idea.
1 May 2016, 02:44 AM
#3
Posts: 279
I think the point of one or the other is the trade off of different strengths and weaknesses.
1 May 2016, 02:51 AM
#4
Posts: 571
I think the point of one or the other is the trade off of different strengths and weaknesses.
+1
1 May 2016, 03:22 AM
#5
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
I think the point of one or the other is the trade off of different strengths and weaknesses.
In my opinion Lieutenant is quite dead tier right now.
Don't you agree that Lieutenant tier is heavily underused in current meta?
I think the problem is in abscence of AT. At least for me it is so.
I don't agree that complete absense of AT or suppression is a good design. This is the same problem as with soviet T1/T2 choice. AT and suppression should be balanced between tiers, you just should achieve your goals through different means.
I understand that you can always invest into early zooks, but you can't really chase a light vehicle with them and also they get outranged and kited.
I think that M2HB penetration buff will make it into live servers, but that's just not enough because it will work only against players with bad micro - those who parks their vehicles in front of your MG for a while. DShKa's example has already taught us.
Zooks also quite bad in fighting medium armor. Yes, they penetrate Pz.IVs, they do quite good DPS, but if you use zooks against them you just bleed like a swine.
1 May 2016, 03:46 AM
#6
7 
Posts: 1664
In UKF Alpha USF could build 57mm AT gun from the HQ once they teched their first officer and M15 AAHT was in Captain tier. I liked it, but Captain tier felt naked.
1 May 2016, 07:38 AM
#7
Posts: 90
what if stuart was moved to lt tier and m2hb was moved to captain tier? Making it more defensive oriented as opposed to lt which is meant to be more for offensive play.
The problem i have with lt tier is too many redundant units. everything there is AI which means you need to get zooks to fend off the light vehicle rush. That hardly works as most decent players will kite you and bleed you hard.
I always go for capt simply because everything is different and useful. AT gun. pack howie and stuart each do something useful and they do it good.
lt tier has 2 suppression platforms and a scout ai vehicle. No AT at all.
The problem i have with lt tier is too many redundant units. everything there is AI which means you need to get zooks to fend off the light vehicle rush. That hardly works as most decent players will kite you and bleed you hard.
I always go for capt simply because everything is different and useful. AT gun. pack howie and stuart each do something useful and they do it good.
lt tier has 2 suppression platforms and a scout ai vehicle. No AT at all.
1 May 2016, 11:23 AM
#8
Posts: 766 | Subs: 2
In the upcoming patch notes, the M2b MG will get a pen buff from 3 to 9 and ap rounds. This will it to allow fighting light vehicles such as the 222.
1 May 2016, 11:38 AM
#9
Posts: 294 | Subs: 1
In the upcoming patch notes, the M2b MG will get a pen buff from 3 to 9 and ap rounds. This will it to allow fighting light vehicles such as the 222.
But will it allow the M2HB to be a soft counter for luchs rush?
I'm a 2v2/1v1 player so my perspectives match these modes.
1 May 2016, 11:45 AM
#10
3 
Posts: 658
LT: support weapons
Cpt: light vehicles
Tweak fuel costs > done.
Cpt: light vehicles
Tweak fuel costs > done.
1 May 2016, 11:46 AM
#11
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
But will it allow the M2HB to be a soft counter for luchs rush?
The normal rounds will penetrate 9% of the time against the frontal armour at max range and the AP rounds will penetrate 27% of the time at max range so I think there's a reasonable chance it could with Rifles' AT grenades nearby to scare it off.
1 May 2016, 12:15 PM
#12
Posts: 90
LT: support weapons
Cpt: light vehicles
Tweak fuel costs > done.
seems to be the best solution
1 May 2016, 12:50 PM
#13
Posts: 571
In the upcoming patch notes, the M2b MG will get a pen buff from 3 to 9 and ap rounds. This will it to allow fighting light vehicles such as the 222.
Definitely kill the 222, since SMGs can kill that thing.
Luchs can probably be scared away, but wont be MG-42 APIT bursting down a jeep level of kill.
1 May 2016, 12:53 PM
#14
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
LT: support weapons
Cpt: light vehicles
Tweak fuel costs > done.
So LT sits around with all that fuel and can't spend it on anything?
IMO that is not good.
My idea was to make tiers balanced in amount of tools, not specialized.
Otherwise you suffer, just like Soviet T1.
1 May 2016, 13:21 PM
#15
Posts: 179
The LT. Utility car can build AT mines...
1 May 2016, 14:26 PM
#16
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
The LT. Utility car can build AT mines...
Right. Updated original post to adress... this.
1 May 2016, 16:24 PM
#17
Posts: 137
In UKF Alpha USF could build 57mm AT gun from the HQ once they teched their first officer and M15 AAHT was in Captain tier. I liked it, but Captain tier felt naked.
While this was true at the time, Captain is essential even if it didn't have an AT gun. The "On Me" is a key ability to counter suppression and snipers while also having zooks. The Pack-Howi is great arty(being the only late game arty USF has) and has white phosphorus. These two units are needed to do well into the mid and late game.
The bigger problem is the lack of suppression, as you have to back tech for the 50 cal. As it currently stands, captain to LT or LT to captain are the best builds (or try to dominate with the 50 cal). With the AT gun buffs, it will be easier to win without teching to T4, since it is really lack luster.
1 May 2016, 16:25 PM
#18
1 Posts: 1276
I mean the LT tier would always be built if it was all support weapons. The cpt tier is only built due to it having safer options.
Adjusting the Fuel tech prices would be a good idea, moving the AT gun to tier 0 would allow open up LT teir for options. Put the Light mortar into T1 and maybe maybe reduce LT price to 40 fuel.
You still have solid AT in both techs as well as an indirect, You wouldnt rly be punished to go any tier.
Adjusting the Fuel tech prices would be a good idea, moving the AT gun to tier 0 would allow open up LT teir for options. Put the Light mortar into T1 and maybe maybe reduce LT price to 40 fuel.
You still have solid AT in both techs as well as an indirect, You wouldnt rly be punished to go any tier.
1 May 2016, 17:37 PM
#19
Posts: 174
The normal rounds will penetrate 9% of the time against the frontal armour at max range and the AP rounds will penetrate 27% of the time at max range so I think there's a reasonable chance it could with Rifles' AT grenades nearby to scare it off.
It won't. I tested the balance preview in the cheat mod with a .50 cal HMG in a building vs. a Luchs. Frontal armor, even with AP rounds, the .50 cal barely did any damage. The only time the .50 cal was able to reliably damage / kill the Luchs was firing into its rear armor for awhile.
The .50 cal's AP performance is a joke compared to the incendiary AP rounds of the MG42, which (in cheat mod) handled the Luchs quite easily.
The Captain also does not have Bazookas in the Balanced Preview (intended) and he cannot purchase his own Zook package (removed from patch notes, so maybe intended?). Thus USF will have no AT other than snares until they tech Bazookas or Captain --> 57 mm.
I would be fine with this, because OKW is in the same boat now, but OKW's ATG is in T0, and USF's is locked behind the Captain.
I don't know how you can survive long enough as USF without any real AT if you try to go LT, M20, maybe an HMG, then Captain, then 57 mm, or Weapon Racks somewhere in there.
1 May 2016, 19:38 PM
#20
Posts: 96
swap .50 and 57mm. cap with zooks stays with zooks. both have AT and suppression.
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