How does everyone feel about it ?
I personally think it's a bit too hard to kill them.
MG-42 4 man squad
11 Jul 2013, 20:32 PM
#1
1 
Posts: 1006
11 Jul 2013, 21:06 PM
#2
Posts: 14
Mg 3 man was fine!
4 man just wasnt needed, imo.
I would have liked to see russian mgs and mortars, at guns + sniper go to axis size of 3 man .
It feels a bit spammy with this big teams.
4 man just wasnt needed, imo.
I would have liked to see russian mgs and mortars, at guns + sniper go to axis size of 3 man .
It feels a bit spammy with this big teams.
11 Jul 2013, 21:20 PM
#3
Posts: 252
to be honest , not that big of a change, just a bit more survivability so german crew weapons can cope up to soviet 6 man crew... they can now stay on frontline longer, its not like they got dmg buff ... but it still fells bit more balanced than it was , i like it, now 2 squads sniper spam vs german crew weapons wont be as effective, also abusing m3+flamer requires more care and risk (cuz 50% chance troops die inside)
Alehandro, Ale Ale-handro
11 Jul 2013, 22:11 PM
#4
Posts: 49
Its a massive change, its hard enough to get a flank in the first place and kill but now its just impossible, especially in houses. They just don't die. Small arms fire needs a damage buff vs ALL weapons teams and building cover needs to be toned down.
11 Jul 2013, 22:23 PM
#5
Posts: 3293
flanks are hurt by this however i don't think that anything is real effected in a bad way by it though
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11 Jul 2013, 22:29 PM
#6
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
I do think it gives the MG a little more stayingpower early game where just a little more time counts. The other weaponcrews of 4 guys are just fine, the MG42, nah.... Not until they fix infantry damage against supportweapons (overall, soviet and ostheer alike).
11 Jul 2013, 22:51 PM
#7
Posts: 642
Its not an insane change, imho. It does mean german crews are far more reislient to molotovs and stuff, but here's the catch:
Germans still have no equivalent. If I put a Maxim inside a building early game (say, a cutoff or munitions point), there is literally very little you can do to kick me out of it. Sure, you can get a flamer (I just delayed your Flamer HT and potentially disrupted your munitions for fausts), and my maxim WILL kill your flamer before it kills my Machine Gun.... you'll dance around the house and kill it maybe, with good micro...
Meanwhile, my troops took the rest of the map.
As a Soviet you can still molotov those guys or satchel them (you can get penal battalions VERY early).
Snipers, for both sides, are not worth the investment that early on...
Germans still have no equivalent. If I put a Maxim inside a building early game (say, a cutoff or munitions point), there is literally very little you can do to kick me out of it. Sure, you can get a flamer (I just delayed your Flamer HT and potentially disrupted your munitions for fausts), and my maxim WILL kill your flamer before it kills my Machine Gun.... you'll dance around the house and kill it maybe, with good micro...
Meanwhile, my troops took the rest of the map.
As a Soviet you can still molotov those guys or satchel them (you can get penal battalions VERY early).
Snipers, for both sides, are not worth the investment that early on...
11 Jul 2013, 22:51 PM
#8
Posts: 604
Not until they fix infantry damage against supportweapons (overall, soviet and ostheer alike).
Impossible without target tables or deviating from their "all infantry = 80 HP" (except snipers) agenda. And even that could be circumvented by recrewing.
If MG-42s really prove to be the balance problem some are already painting them to be, they could increase the damage modifiers of the molotov and molotov DoTs from 0.75 vs. garrison cover to 1.0 or so.
However, it seems like Soviets are now experiencing the exact same problem Germans had and still has... I guess garrison cover might be the problem after all. They could just increase the modifiers for nearly all weapons vs. garrisons. Many streamers and shoutcasters have already said on video that buildings feel a bit too strong.
11 Jul 2013, 23:05 PM
#9
1 Posts: 1006
I find they are OP in buildings, probably same goes for Maxim though.
I think there should be a huge delay for units changing firing direction in buildings and what would be even nicer is if you could select the direction of fire when in buildings.
I think there should be a huge delay for units changing firing direction in buildings and what would be even nicer is if you could select the direction of fire when in buildings.
11 Jul 2013, 23:46 PM
#10
Posts: 247
Wish they had gone the other way and decreased sovjet crew sizes as well. Yesterday I had my MG outflanked by the enemy engineers, yet it could hold its ground without losses untill reinforcements came to "hush" them away. Now I know engineers arent exactly the best infantryunits, but I really wish they would make outflanking, and thereby protecting your weapons, more important again, like COH1.
Especially the russians are bad, as leaving Maxim og mortar outflanked is never really punished. Worst case it will have to retreat, most times it can hold its ground, and continue to bombard, untill reinforcements are brought up.
Especially the russians are bad, as leaving Maxim og mortar outflanked is never really punished. Worst case it will have to retreat, most times it can hold its ground, and continue to bombard, untill reinforcements are brought up.
11 Jul 2013, 23:51 PM
#11
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
Has anyone checked to see if the added squad members to Ostheer support weapons increases their health, or is the same HP just divided 4 ways instead of 3?
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The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
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The German oil scarcity, rare tanks cannot fight the Allied torrent. Kill the house to kill the German oil.
Every time lose may feel bad. Probably not the word lose your subconscious. Maybe I win you Not for the first time Maybe you you should go to recall,
11 Jul 2013, 23:54 PM
#12
15 
Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
as far as I can tell it's an extra 80hp to every german weapon team
12 Jul 2013, 03:19 AM
#13
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedBuildings are OP.
Aside from that, MGs survival is now harmonised to the same as Maxims, in the Ostheer way.
Aside from that, MGs survival is now harmonised to the same as Maxims, in the Ostheer way.
12 Jul 2013, 03:36 AM
#14
Posts: 101
i like it. both 6 man and 4 man teams will have trouble staying alive late game so this only helps germans early game. considering molotovs and flamethrowers and snipers all ignore armor and go for the HP, this helps germans keep their mgs alive. you can still force retreats and cost them manpower, just like when ur maxium has to retreat with two guys left.
the other option as people have stated is to lower the soviet squads size. i used to agree with this but i think i prefer more HP overall in the game rather than less. i like units being able to stay alive and vet rather than die simply because of one flank and molotov.
the other option as people have stated is to lower the soviet squads size. i used to agree with this but i think i prefer more HP overall in the game rather than less. i like units being able to stay alive and vet rather than die simply because of one flank and molotov.
12 Jul 2013, 04:02 AM
#15
1 Posts: 1006
after 10 games, I agree its fine, except buildings, soviet or german.
like I said I would really like a big delay for switching window and being able to select which side of house to attack from
like I said I would really like a big delay for switching window and being able to select which side of house to attack from
12 Jul 2013, 04:03 AM
#16
Posts: 642
Anyone know if the mortar changes affect the Mortar HT? The patch only lists the 84cm mortar...
12 Jul 2013, 06:06 AM
#17
Posts: 928
the other option as people have stated is to lower the soviet squads size. i used to agree with this but i think i prefer more HP overall in the game rather than less. i like units being able to stay alive and vet rather than die simply because of one flank and molotov.
Um, this is what happened in COH1, and I think it is a good mechanic. It forces people to more carefully pick where their support units go. If they do a bad job/if the MG/mortar/ATG is outflanked, it should be killed outright.
This is what kept the COH1 infantry battles fluid - support teams which had a large influence, but weren't dominant.
Had fun doing this earlier
12 Jul 2013, 07:08 AM
#18
Posts: 73
i think overall it takes infantry to long to kill weapon-teams.
They just don't do enough damage to the squad members so that a flank without flames/nades does not really give you that much advantage.
Yes, you will probably force a retreat or a reposition of the weapon-team, but placing your weapon teams at the wrong spot should make it vulnerable.
The only way of doing it without them getting to vulnerable to AoE is increasing the infantry rifle damage across the board (maybe SMGs too but they already kill fast).
As german you are forced to get the LMG42 to be able to kill weapon-teams while flanking them, or else it takes ages.
But it is almost the same for conscripts without PPSHs, they also take long to kill the weapon team.
I would bring down russian mortar and AT-gun to 4 men and both Maxim and MG42 to 3 men.
Or as i said, increase the rifle damage across the board. (Will lead to faster battles between basic infantry too though)
They just don't do enough damage to the squad members so that a flank without flames/nades does not really give you that much advantage.
Yes, you will probably force a retreat or a reposition of the weapon-team, but placing your weapon teams at the wrong spot should make it vulnerable.
The only way of doing it without them getting to vulnerable to AoE is increasing the infantry rifle damage across the board (maybe SMGs too but they already kill fast).
As german you are forced to get the LMG42 to be able to kill weapon-teams while flanking them, or else it takes ages.
But it is almost the same for conscripts without PPSHs, they also take long to kill the weapon team.
I would bring down russian mortar and AT-gun to 4 men and both Maxim and MG42 to 3 men.
Or as i said, increase the rifle damage across the board. (Will lead to faster battles between basic infantry too though)
12 Jul 2013, 08:39 AM
#19
Posts: 2779
Now spam MG42 and A move everywhere MVGame
12 Jul 2013, 08:44 AM
#20
Posts: 101
Um, this is what happened in COH1, and I think it is a good mechanic. It forces people to more carefully pick where their support units go. If they do a bad job/if the MG/mortar/ATG is outflanked, it should be killed outright.
This is what kept the COH1 infantry battles fluid - support teams which had a large influence, but weren't dominant.
this to me is what ruined vcoh. bad players will always lose units, but making the game so that one mistake costs you major setbacks (lost mg42, russian recrews with 6 man squad, need to pay 240 mp to get another mg42 or lose map control, fall behind in tech...) because my 3 man squad had a molotov thrown on them which killed them outright instead of forcing retreat (retreat meaning that territory is now my opponents and i have to retake it. smaller loss and allows for more tactical gameplay).
when i start losing whole units in 1-2 shots, i feel like i'm playing a coh/sc2 hybrid which is a horrible thought
edit: if i remember correctly support teams had alot more armor (pak did for sure) and there were less flame weapons. meaning the extra hp was not near as necessary
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