Let's talk about WM 1v1 balance (again)

lol yeh saw the same cast, a truly epic game!

he bumrushed a brummbar in the same game x)

Apparently! Yeah it totally was epic! As if an Elefant 1vs1 wasn't epic enough! Nice to see all those units once in a while.

Which leads me to the point that T4 imho is really too expensive.

So there are people posting on the Propaganda Cast about Ostheer being OP and people posting here about them being UP... I guess that means they're fine.

News from the front:

I'll keep this thread updated with all WM vs USF games i can spectate during the day, so that people can finally witness that WM is NOT fine (i'll stick to WM vs USF matchup for now, as it is the main offender imo).

First game of the day:

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  0

  VS

  netenno

  SpaRtan

  Second WM 1v1 replay

  by: SlaYoU map: Kholodny Ferma

  3

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There's a quite noticeable gap between both players' ranks, so it I upload it only to be consistent with what i claim in this thread.

Second one:

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  VS

  Bikiniinspektor

  SpaRtan

  WM - USF 15 april 2016 #3

  by: SlaYoU map: Kholodny Ferma Winter

  1

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This time the ranks do match a bit better, still a stomp though.

Third one:

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  0

  VS

  S1M0N

  dries.kimpe

  WM - USF 15 april 2016 #4

  by: SlaYoU map: Lost Glider

  7

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First win of the day, but players from very low ranks, so impossible to take player skill into account.

Apparently! Yeah it totally was epic! As if an Elefant 1vs1 wasn't epic enough! Nice to see all those units once in a while.

Which leads me to the point that T4 imho is really too expensive.

- Battle Phase Two cost increased from 100/45 to 260/95
- Support Armor Korps(T3) cost reduced from 260/75 to 100/25
- Heavy Panzer Korps(T4) cost reduced from 260/75 to 100/25

How about this? It reduces the cost of going T3 then T4 by 160/50 but rushing T4 costs just as much as normal. As a nice side-effect, it also makes replacing the late-game buildings less expensive if your opponent likes artillery.

Wehrmacht = Ostheer + OKW (german army in ww2)

Pls staph.

- Battle Phase Two cost increased from 100/45 to 260/95
- Support Armor Korps(T3) cost reduced from 260/75 to 100/25
- Heavy Panzer Korps(T4) cost reduced from 260/75 to 100/25

How about this? It reduces the cost of going T3 then T4 by 160/50 but rushing T4 costs just as much as normal. As a nice side-effect, it also makes replacing the late-game buildings less expensive if your opponent likes artillery.

Sounds quite good to me but my opinion should hardly be considered when it comes to balance. If I somehow manage to rank up to at least top 500 I'll come here again! I swear!

Just remove the damn unnecessary vet bonuses on terminator rifles already and bar buff was enough

I stopped playing 1v1s until they patch this crap. It's too much of a cluster f with the current balance.

OH is an overall rather weak faction, that crutches on a handful of doctrines and the sniper to stay relatively competitive; and thats been the case since at least the Guards/85 meta. I might add that this is reawlly the worst thing about it: OH offers the least amount of competitively viable strats/builds by far among any faction in this game because its core units (Grens,42,Pgrens,Pak,T3) are too fragile and their synergy is too weak these days. The propensity of your 4-man mainline infantry to get oneshotted by AOE weapons/mines/what have you especially makes conserving their vet insanely difficult and the gameplay experience overall frustrating. To reiterate however, what irks me the most about Ostheer is the lack of variety: If I actually want to win against semi-decent opponents at my level of mediocrity (roughly top 100) I need to cheese insanely hard with snipers and call ins, whereas the same does not apply to other factions.
In contrast, just about any Soviet doctrine is at least somewhat viable - even though some of course are rather more viable - and the same (gasp!) goes for US. UK I won't comment upon. Don't believe me, think I am exaggerating? Try playing Ostheer-and subsequently the other factions- off-meta: There is no comparison. You'll be convinced in no time.

I love Ostheer. My favourite faction but the struggle especially against USF is so huge... Rifles blob with smoke pushing you hard and when you finally get over it, there is Stuart on the field or AA HT and one bad position with you Pak means almost gg.

I love Ostheer. My favourite faction but the struggle especially against USF is so huge... Rifles blob with smoke pushing you hard and when you finally get over it, there is Stuart on the field or AA HT and one bad position with you Pak means almost gg.

That's the beauty and sadness of the faction, very pleasant to play, yet far to be able to compete.

Well if you have trouble with Wehr you can count on osttruppen.

You realy can

My only real gripe with Ostheer is that grenadiers get wiped too often by random things such mines. It's sorta OK when it happens to elite infantry because this affects all factions and these units do not form the core of your army and often perform well even without vet. Your core infantry however needs vet and fresh cons/grens/rifles etc simply are not good later on in the game.

This, I feel, is what makes Ostheer a little weaker than other factions. In games where I am not losing grenadiers to random wipes, I don't feel that I am on the backfoot simply for playing Ostheer.

Other issues Ostheer has are more related to certain specialized units not performing too well such as the Brumbar and the Ostwind; but these I feel do not make the faction as a whole underpowered. They just limit the faction in the same way that the sucky M8 Scott limits the USF, lackluster Penals limit Sovs etc.

Guys when you try to speak about RedWings, he dont use meta or even simple basic counter for some units sometimes, he are coh2 geek.
Its not perfect map for ostheer vs riflesm, maybe it was before map change.

Ok, one last for today, i guess that's enough for now.

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  0

  VS

  ezerkeman

  Mr.Noob [PL]

  One more game to the grinder

  by: SlaYoU map: Lost Glider

  1

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Recap for today: 1-4.

I'll see if i find enough time in the days to come to update the topic with fresh new OH - USF treats

PS: actual results are 2-5, but the players rank weren't significative enough to warrant an upload. (still i wish i were able to check the players ranks ingame before actually committing to spectate their game, would save me lots of time).

Ok, one last for today, i guess that's enough for now.

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  0

  VS

  ezerkeman

  Mr.Noob [PL]

  One more game to the grinder

  by: SlaYoU map: Lost Glider

  1

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Recap for today: 1-4.

I'll see if i find enough time in the days to come to update the topic with fresh new OH - USF treats

PS: actual results are 2-5, but the players rank weren't significative enough to warrant an upload. (still i wish i were able to check the players ranks ingame before actually committing to spectate their game, would save me lots of time).

Are those the highest ranked game playing atm ? If anything, you are just showing the MM problem. Didn't the higher ranked player won on all of the matches ?

Are those the highest ranked game playing atm ? If anything, you are just showing the MM problem. Didn't the higher ranked player won on all of the matches ?

I always pick them on top of first page. But there aren't a lot of OH - USF match ups, so sometimes i dig a little deeper, and get games that are not worth uploading. Since i focus exclusively on this matchup, it can get tricky, but yeah, the top first page position represent the highest ranks game being played at the moment. Sadly not many OH top players are queuing (and rightfully so), so it can be tricky to find decent games.

Ostheer has 2 main problems. One is a complete lack of diversity in teching choices because Relic's lead game designer is thoroughly incompetent.

In the vCOH, there were 2 strong tech paths. One was going Tier 1 into extended Tier 2 and then tier 4. Another was going tier 1 and then going tier 3 and then tier 4. In each case, tier 4 can also be replaced with a call-in.

Tier 4 is absolute trash in the game for some reason (probbly because again, the lead game designer/balancer on the game either doesn't exist or is an idiot).

Second problem with ostheer is over-reliance on MG's since Grenadiers are so bad. Map-dependent game balance is trash game design.

Then again emplacements are the same dumb sh*t and relic left that cancer in the game.