Question about Guards usage.

With all this recent discussion about Penal Battalions, Soviet elite infantry, and their T1, I've become curious as to the reasons people choose to use Guards as Soviets.

Well, uh, both of the first two reasons. The PTRS fends off light vehicles, but you sure as hell can't be using them against tanks later so you might as well get the DP-28s. Neither of these weapons's niches are really provided elsewhere in the Soviet's base tiers so it's kinda hard to not use both these aspects of Guards when you bought them.

Also, the nuclear RGD-33s

But not Button. They could replace it with Volley Fire and I wouldn't notice the difference

Well, uh, both of the first two reasons. The PTRS fends off light vehicles, but you sure as hell can't be using them against tanks later so you might as well get the DP-28s. Neither of these weapons's niches are really provided elsewhere in the Soviet's base tiers so it's kinda hard to not use both these aspects of Guards when you bought them.

Also, the nuclear RGD-33s

But not Button. They could replace it with Volley Fire and I wouldn't notice the difference

don't underestimate PTRS guards, when they hit vet 3 if you don't focus fire them you can take heavy damage on tanks like stugs and P4s.

And if you have 2-3 you can even do quite well even against KTs.

sure, any sensible player will focus them down, but still, they are very dangerous.

Their SURVIVABILITY combined with their great utility makes them a very desirable unit.

Primary use=early light AT.

After 8th minute, its AI exclusively, because they are useless at AT.

This poll lacks of AI and AT option in one.

Where is the button option? you know the useless ability that costs 40 mun,
Also where is the mine flare option, that's definitely meta right there.

Also where is the mine flare option, that's definitely meta right there.

WHOA, WATCH IT, WE GOT A MARSHAL HERE

Jack of all trades, master of none.

1.90% of its use is long range AI. But most playable docs dont have guards.
2. Unit is good but rarely used due to #1.

Poll is missing the most important option: for Everything.

Also, the poster above me never has heard of guard motor.

Do people really think Button is useless? Personally I've found that it can be the difference between finishing off a tank and not. I like them because they are a good all-rounder and the mobile light AT is very handy against 222 spam or a OKW playe with good Luches micro in the early-mid game.

We are guards infantry, they are dead infantry!

Both.

Thanks for the input and for voting everyone so far!

So from what I'm seeing is people don't primarily go for Guards Infantry for their PTRS. And even when they are, their AI capabilities are just as, if not more, important.

I guess a follow-up question is whether or not people choose between Guards and Shocks (or nothing) by virtue of the units, or the doctrines they come in.

And oh man I would love it if DP-28s gave volley fire instead/in addition to Button.

Do people really think Button is useless? Personally I've found that it can be the difference between finishing off a tank and not.

Well, it can, but this situation is still pretty damn rare.

What needs to happen for Button to make an appreciable difference:
1. The vehicle needs to be close enough to the Guards for the vehicle to not move out of its radius real fast. Unlikely, since nearly all vehicles are easily much faster than infantry.
1.i. The vehicle probably needs to be afflicted with engine damage too since a vehicle will probably be able to reverse out of a point-blank button by the time most AT weapons would reload anyway.

2. The vehicle needs enough AT firing at it that it would die with the Button's aid but not too much that the Button is superfluous. Unlikely in both cases since it's pretty hard to get just enough AT so that a medium+ tank will die within a Button's duration (also probably related to the first point) but not without it, getting that much AT against a heavy tank is pretty unlikely because they're heavy tanks, and getting precisely just enough AT against a light vehicle is also pretty unlikely since they die really friggin' fast.

3. The vehicle needs to be firing at the AT to make the fire-rate reduction useful. Somewhat more likely, but it also relies a bit on the second point since if you've got more than just enough AT for the situation the fire-rate reduction probably won't matter too much.

4. The Guards need to not get wrecked running at a tank anyway, which rather relies on your opponent messing up horribly which is of course, kinda unlikely.

Obviously, this is quite rare compared to the old "might as well be stunlocked" Button (may it RIP in pieces, the pain in the arse) that automatically makes the situation bad for any vehicle while there's other AT around.

And oh man I would love it if DP-28s gave volley fire instead/in addition to Button.

Well, it'd probably stand a chance of being useful at least once in a given match considering people generally get DP-28s on Guards compared to REs getting BARs being a lot less likely, but the "Die really fast to maybe suppress" button would still strike me as usually dubious.

I actuualy didnt ever noticed rear button ability has any eefect except visual sign.

How i defeated no-skill abuser with 1 VP.
1 of my best games i played with double guards. Best because i defeated abuser with 1 VP left. Replay of it was broken. I so wanted to upload it and watch myself.


When i got to 1 VP that fag had like 300 VP. All his playstyle is an abuse
1. He started by abusing double mg and extra squad on feymonville.
2. Then abuse of 444 which killed my sniper
3. Then when he saw GM he realised i can have mediums a lot later than he can. He started to spam mediums- i killed like 7-9 of ostwinds and p4s - but the cloak was tickin that was his filthy goal - overwhelm with mediums that i dont have or win on VP.

4. Last when his army was wiped and some of basebuildings destroyed. He started to play even more meanly.
He started to send shit to the vp-pointS just to get this last VP.

At last moment he send grens+flamer pios to VP point and lone vet3 guard squad wiped both of them. That was the end of this abnoxious abuser.

I dislike extra squad abusers, low tech abusers (like t1 t2 into stuge into tiger), sniper abusers. I sometimes see players with skill but ussualy my oponents try to win with abuse not skill.

Well, it'd probably stand a chance of being useful at least once in a given match considering people generally get DP-28s on Guards compared to REs getting BARs being a lot less likely, but the "Die really fast to maybe suppress" button would still strike me as usually dubious.

Interestingly enough, I've tested this a few times by modding in the ability for Penal Battalions within a DP-28 upgrade. Because it's an automatic weapon, it actually put down a fairly reliable amount of suppression, unlike the RE carbines (which incidentally, appear to use a different weapon and profile for the ability).

I actuualy didnt ever noticed rear button ability has any eefect except visual sign.

How i defeated no-skill abuser with 1 VP.
1 of my best games i played with double guards. Best because i defeated abuser with 1 VP left. Replay of it was broken. I so wanted to upload it and watch myself.


When i got to 1 VP that fag had like 300 VP. All his playstyle is an abuse
1. He started by abusing double mg and extra squad on feymonville.
2. Then abuse of 444 which killed my sniper
3. Then when he saw GM he realised i can have mediums a lot later than he can. He started to spam mediums- i killed like 7-9 of ostwinds and p4s - but the cloak was tickin that was his filthy goal - overwhelm with mediums that i dont have or win on VP.

4. Last when his army was wiped and some of basebuildings destroyed. He started to play even more meanly.
He started to send shit to the vp-pointS just to get this last VP.

At last moment he send grens+flamer pios to VP point and lone vet3 guard squad wiped both of them. That was the end of this abnoxious abuser.

I dislike extra squad abusers, low tech abusers (like t1 t2 into stuge into tiger), sniper abusers. I sometimes see players with skill but ussualy my oponents try to win with abuse not skill.

The wonderful Tales of Triple A

To be honest, Button ability is overnerfed. It was fine, easy-counterable ability (just get out of guards radius, or use Panzer Tactitian smoke), right now it is just a waste of 45 (!!!) munitions.