SU85 doesnt penetrate OKW

This might be a bug or wrong change that they forget about. Like old maxim that werent kiling or supressing anything.
Now it does mediocre dmg vs oh tigers but penetrate normaly.

With okw its just a bs. It bounces of panters all the time. To kill KT you need 30 shots. While is2 and zis are somewhat better
. Vs late okw you need to play is2 commander usualy. Jp4 pen is2 normaly in comparision. Its never good investment to tech to t4 non doc units vs late okw

no more vodka for you

Wowwwwwww I wouldn't want the SU85 to penetrate an entire faction.

Am I correct in stating that the Panther for OKW comes with side skirts (thus increased armor and HP values) when compared to the Ostheer Panther? This would be the same as the P4 for each faction.

Do you really need 30 shots from the SU85 to kill the KT? I don't think so. SU85 damage can't be that low. If that was the result of one test including bounced shots, you can't just do one test and reach a conclusion.
That's why the study of statistics exists m8.

Do Jagdpanzer IVs regularly penetrate the IS2? Let's find out. I'll post the answer in an edit to this post!

Fuck it I'll make a new post, sorry moderators:

Okay, so, to make a general statement, the KT and the JP4 perform better than the IS-2 and SU-85.
However, the OKW vehicles also cost more.

When a JP4 fires at an IS2 from max range, it has a penetration chance of 170. IS-2 has armor of 375/205 (front/rear)
So, penetration calculations use the simple equation p(%)=v/a
Where p is the probability of a successful penetration (expressed as a percent), v is the penetration value at a given range, and where a is the armor value of the tank.
Against the front, the JP4 at maximum range has a penetration chance of .453(repeating 3). So you've got a 45% chance to penetrate. That's far from "always".

Let's look at the SU85 vs. KT.
When an SU85 fires at a KT from max range, it has a penetration chance of 180. KT has an armor value of 375/225 (front/rear). When you take the values (180/375) you get an exact .48

That's not much of a difference, three percent, but it does better than the JP4. Against rear armor of the IS2, JP4 has a .83 chance. SU85 vs. rear armor of KT is a .8 chance.

here's a fun google doc I made in ten minutes. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g1GN0VO18kDoERcvo7q_4aKuyQpnN5dM5Jra0RflORE/edit?usp=sharing
stats from coh2-stats.com/vehicles


Edit: To conclude, l2p.

"it's never a good idea to tech t4 against late game OKW" yeah, of course, you don't need the Katyusha. T34/76s can put you ahead too. Say you kill the first medium tank from OKW right after it comes out and you know they've got to wait on their command panther or KT or whatever shit to throw at you. You get map control back cuz your 2 SU76s and your vet 3 ZSU are all still alive. You tech t4, push out 2 t34/76s and end the game.
idk, I'm not too good with theory crafting sometimes. Late game is hard with the variables.
Katyusha, though, always good.

Edit #2: Realized stats from coh2-stats are from June 2015. Checked penetration, armor values, and costs on http://www.stat.coh2.hu/index.php and everything was correct except for KT's fuel cost (up to 310). The pen. values that they list are the mid-range penetration values only, whereas coh2-stats listed near/mid/far.

"it's never a good idea to tech t4 against late game OKW" yeah, of course, you don't need the Katyusha. T34/76s can put you ahead too. Say you kill the first medium tank from OKW right after it comes out and you know they've got to wait on their command panther or KT or whatever shit to throw at you. You get map control back cuz your 2 SU76s and your vet 3 ZSU are all still alive. You tech t4, push out 2 t34/76s and end the game.
idk, I'm not too good with theory crafting sometimes. Late game is hard with the variables.
Katyusha, though, always good..

I love the Katyusha vs okw. Their panzerschreck/raketen spam is hard to deal with using light tanks. I love the katyusha in this match up, and the SU85 is pretty solid. (But I don't use IS2 or any of that shit.) T-34/76 is nice to have too.

I don't even like getting T70's anymore since they are relatively easily countered. For me it's 1 SU76 and maybe a halftrack and then go straight to t4.

SU85 does what it is supposed to do, it is fine (though the pathing feels clunky compared to other TDs, idk why)

T34/76 is absolute garbage even for cost and needs buffs

Love the SU-85, criminally underrated unit. I like them particularly against OKW because the extra sight range lets you spot for at guns and things to quickly shoot down their flack truck without putting units in range.

Once you get vet 2 on it

The only thing I'd change in SU-85 is pathing.

With okw its just a bs. It bounces of panters all the time. To kill KT you need 30 shots. While is2 and zis are somewhat better. Vs late okw you need to play is2 commander usualy. Jp4 pen is2 normaly in comparision. Its never good investment to tech to t4 non doc units vs late okw

When I played as OKW this morning, the Sovjets managed to kill my KT when it could not retreat in time because of other player's tanks in the way. It didn't take 30 shots, and I didn't even see the SU-85 shoot at my KT in the beginning.

Penetration is fine, tho it could use some armor or health with veteracny.. Currently it can't bounce anything.

TD almost never shot at rear at armour.
I was talking about constant bounces and low dmg to panters and kt not to kt only. This unit is not countered by say85 due to its fast speed range and low received dmg/bounces from the front. Its only countered by unit mix that include is2.
If su85 is fine vs okw then it overperforms vs oh. While it absolutely doesnt op vs anything.

Also saing that okw has some more expensive tank is absurd. Every okw tank except kt is a lot cheaper cuz itz unit unlock is cheaper.

Now there 1 comander shock rifle vs okw every game. Is2 is must have. And shocks are must have to drive off those invisible atgs. Only shocks do it reliably cuz other units just get ambushed by sturms.

Now there 1 comander shock rifle vs okw every game. Is2 is must have. And shocks are must have to drive off those invisible atgs. Only shocks do it reliably cuz other units just get ambushed by sturms.

Lel.

Havent use IS2 or shocks in ages - still doing fine

ive seen alot bounces axis AT vs is2 . although su85 has sight range ,u can choose su penetrate bulltines,cant u? mmmdo u compare kt-is2 ?
u know kt cost is 720-310 but in real 720mp and about 540(3trucks) fuel to come,then u can easilly kill it by mark target.

ive seen alot bounces axis AT vs is2 . although su85 has sight range ,u can choose su penetrate bulltines,can u? mmmdo u compare kt-is2 ?
u know kt cost is 720-310 but in real 720mp and about 540(3trucks) fuel to come,then u can easilly kill it by mark target.

When someone is putting teching cost as a unit cost

Unless you want to say that T34/76 costs 275 fuel

When someone is putting teching cost as a unit cost

Unless you want to say that T34/76 costs 275 fuel

sure that why alies crying about t34 or katyusha to t4 absolutly cost, hard to get it.beside these alies play in t2 easilly then call in is2,when i play as alies 1v1 2v2 love to see axis saving fuel for late game tank that easilly killed by mark!
else?

sure that why alies crying about t34 to t4 absolutly cost, hard to get it.
else?

So Sherman costs 290fuel?
E8 325?

I don't think so.

Therefore KT does not cost over 500.

In that case, OST Panther would cost 465 fuel and it should be as deadly as KT. But it;s not becasue it costs 175.

Any buff to the SU-85 should be connected with a nerf to the Vet. I would be hesitant to introduce superb penetration against super heavies on a vehicle that shoots every two seconds on Vet3.

So Sherman costs 290fuel?
E8 325?

I don't think so.

Therefore KT does not cost over 500.

In that case, OST Panther would cost 465 fuel and it should be as deadly as KT. But it;s not becasue it costs 175.

we can say this,yeah.but tell me is2 cost? about 260 fuel totally guess

we can say this,yeah.but tell me is2 cost? about 240 fuel totally guess

I hardly see good game just with T2, shocks and call ins (tho still possible) yet getting T3 and T70 is a way better option rather than turtling into call ins.