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russian armor

Comments on the July 10 Patch Notes!

10 Jul 2013, 01:38 AM
#1
avatar of sluzbenik

Posts: 879

Overall, a good start.

Soviet M3A1 Halftrack
• Damage from 9.9 to 10
• Far accuracy from 0.37 to 0.2
• Near cooldown duration modifier from 0.5 to 0.6


Ok, a tiny damage buff that should make little difference. But the far accuracy is not the problem. The problem is a flamer in a halftrack does immense damage from the gun up close. This is how you kill MGs before pack-up can be completed. The near cool-down change, well, maybe it'll help (what is this value anyway, seconds?).

Adjusted the risk vs. reward aspect of unit garrisons within vehicles.
• 50% chance for each entity inside halftrack to die when the garrisoned vehicle dies.


Oh boy...This is good. But it's not what we needed. I don't want to play a crapshoot game. Units should take damage when the vehicle is destroyed, not play Schroedinger's cat. Still, a good change, as only the gamblers will be sticking snipers in clown cars anymore. I am of the school that that's the more OP use. Flamers are ok. Annoying as shit, but ok.

German halftrack buffs seem well deserved. A lot of folks are adopting a strategy on the larger maps of making one even if not turned into a Burger King on wheels to reinforce.

Soviet Weapon Teams
• Soviet PM41 82mm Mortar Barrage shoots slower: 2 to 3.575 seconds.
• Maxim HMG deals less damage: 12.9 to 9.5.
• Maxim HMG setups slower: 1.375 to 1.5125 seconds.
• Soviet HM-120mm Mortar shoots slower: 7 to 8.9 seconds.
• Soviet HM-120mm Barrage shoots slower: 2.5 to 5.175 seconds.
German Weapon Teams
• German Granatewerfer 81mm mortar shoots faster: 4.5 to 2.4 seconds.
• German HMGs, Mortars and AT Guns have 4 entities instead of 3.

Oh boy...Thank god for the Soviet mortar nerf. That thing is ferocious and while you don't see the mortar spam in 1v1 or 2v2 much, larger games really show the power of the Soviet mortar.

Great changes....But it's really going to start to feel like a different game with 4-man Axis weapon crews. It's just not COH anymore. And I think it might make the Axis MG a bit too powerful early game. Since conscript and gren small-arms fire does jack to units anymore, and flanking without flames or Molotovs is already an exercise in futility, this only seals the deal.

Why, oh why, can't we go back to the small-arms fire damage tables from COH? Your MG is flanked by a vanilla rifle squad, you lost a squad member almost instantly if you didn't pack up and retreat and the whole unit was lost 10-15 seconds later. Rifles and volks fights were fast and furious and the guy with the better cover ALWAYS won (if no upgrades had been researched). That just isn't the case in this small-arms fire allergic game. I want the pace of early game COH back, as do most competitive players, and this increase in MG squad members is NOT going to help.

What really needs to happen is to have the HEALTH of the Soviet squads lowered to compensate for their huge numbers! In fact, go ahead and lower the damn health of both MGs really, if this will make flanks possible and for some unknown reason, we can't just have better small-arms fire damage all around.

What I and I'm sure other players resent is that we're forced to get upgrades or specialized units since flanking without a flame ability is dead. This limits our strats and simplifies the game. Ie., we could go for a fast T70/M8 but WE CAN NOT because we MUST get Molotovs or MUST get a clown car/flamer to deal with MGs, and we HAVE to faust the damn clown cars, so we can't get a fast Flamenwurfer.

Don't you see how you're simplifying the game Relic? Reducing the wonderful complexity that was COH? And thereby reducing its lifespan? Everyone HAS to do the same things in competitive games. Otherwise they lose. And the number of possible strategies and gambits seems to be slowly diminishing instead of expanding!








10 Jul 2013, 02:15 AM
#2
avatar of Grund

Posts: 49

Overall it is a very minimal change (balance wise) but on closer inspection the increased durability of the German teams will force Russian to get Molitoves so this should slow teching a bit and delay the T70 just enough for a possible counter to be up. The Clown Car change is very average at best, ok guys have a 50% chance of dying but you still need to kill the thing. This is easier said than done with snipers inside kiting you at max range.

In my opinion, it took WAY too long for this minor balance patch to be coming out but small changes are best. We need to test the new dynamic with weapons teams to see how it effects mid/late game tank play b4 sweeping tank changes are made. Overall a step in the right direction but small changes like this need to happen more regularly, once a week at least. Oh and still no leaderboards/lobbies/ranks etc.
10 Jul 2013, 02:27 AM
#3
avatar of TychoCelchuuu
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2

Great changes....But it's really going to start to feel like a different game with 4-man Axis weapon crews. It's just not COH anymore. And I think it might make the Axis MG a bit too powerful early game. Since conscript and gren small-arms fire does jack to units anymore, and flanking without flames or Molotovs is already an exercise in futility, this only seals the deal.

Why, oh why, can't we go back to the small-arms fire damage tables from COH? Your MG is flanked by a vanilla rifle squad, you lost a squad member almost instantly if you didn't pack up and retreat and the whole unit was lost 10-15 seconds later. Rifles and volks fights were fast and furious and the guy with the better cover ALWAYS won (if no upgrades had been researched). That just isn't the case in this small-arms fire allergic game. I want the pace of early game COH back, as do most competitive players, and this increase in MG squad members is NOT going to help.

What really needs to happen is to have the HEALTH of the Soviet squads lowered to compensate for their huge numbers! In fact, go ahead and lower the damn health of both MGs really, if this will make flanks possible and for some unknown reason, we can't just have better small-arms fire damage all around.

What I and I'm sure other players resent is that we're forced to get upgrades or specialized units since flanking without a flame ability is dead. This limits our strats and simplifies the game. Ie., we could go for a fast T70/M8 but WE CAN NOT because we MUST get Molotovs or MUST get a clown car/flamer to deal with MGs, and we HAVE to faust the damn clown cars, so we can't get a fast Flamenwurfer.

Don't you see how you're simplifying the game Relic? Reducing the wonderful complexity that was COH? And thereby reducing its lifespan? Everyone HAS to do the same things in competitive games. Otherwise they lose. And the number of possible strategies and gambits seems to be slowly diminishing instead of expanding!

This is how I tend to feel about the game. It's a good RTS right now, but it's not a good CoH sequel, given what I liked about CoH.
10 Jul 2013, 03:01 AM
#4
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5

According to Relic devs, the Soviet Scout Car changes actually decrease long-range DPS by 50%, and the accuracy changes impact the accuracy of units inside the SC as well. Just something to keep in mind.
10 Jul 2013, 03:46 AM
#5
avatar of Z3r07
Donator 11

Posts: 1006

I'm worried about the German HMGs 4 man squad :\
10 Jul 2013, 04:08 AM
#6
avatar of NorthWestFresh

Posts: 317

I dont see a problem with the changes they seem like good changes albeit small tweaks really all thats needed im glad to see them taking a conservative route I hate units being patched in to oblivion that detracts from the game.

And don't know what you guyr are really complaining about with COH 2 vs COH 1 I went back and played a couple games of CoH 1 last night and while yes units do seem to die a bit quicker the game seemed much slower and easier overall compared to COH 2. I see COH 2 as more intense and also an opportunity to be even more competitive then COH 1 because you got to keep moving in Coh 2 or lose much more so then COH 1

Also I bet there will be a lot of undocumented changes as Relic likes to do, someone will have to go through the game files and find the hidden changes(buildings nerfed perhaps?)
10 Jul 2013, 04:11 AM
#7
avatar of WarMonkey

Posts: 101

I LOVE THE 4-man german teams. please do not start bashing this particular part of the patch when numerous players have been begging for the german teams to survive longer

there is nothing in this patch i hate. i just wish they would have made it where you cant even put snipers in HTs at all
10 Jul 2013, 04:16 AM
#8
avatar of NorthWestFresh

Posts: 317

I LOVE THE 4-man german teams. please do not start bashing this particular part of the patch when numerous players have been begging for the german teams to survive longer

there is nothing in this patch i hate. i just wish they would have made it where you cant even put snipers in HTs at all


Thats the kind of change Im talking about when I say I dont want to see units/options nerfed into oblivion and hence have a less dynamic game with less options. I play both Germans and Soviets so dont accuse me of being a 1 faction fan boy please but I really see nothing wrong with the sniper car its annoying thats all, and very easy to take out with a scout car and now after this patch if that happens there is a good chance the sniper will die. This game needs things like being able to put different units in cars for variety and fun. Think about it, take those Russian options away and what is fun about the Russians after that?

P.S. I just played a game 20 minutes ago where a savvy German player sniped my sniper out of the scout car it was brilliant, he waited till I was taking fire from a gren squad then sniped and i lost one, I had no idea I had been sniped I though it was Gren fire and wouldnt happen agian then bam he sniped the second guy right out of the car so there is plenty of ways to deal with it, if you got the motivation to try :D
10 Jul 2013, 04:21 AM
#9
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

my game haven't updated at all (always turn-on the auto update), and even restart the steam won't work, yes I'd love to see 4 men crew


BTW, the bolt-action rifle damage is pretty low compare to those in vCOH, this patch will bring some advantage to German side in early game
10 Jul 2013, 04:31 AM
#10
avatar of WarMonkey

Posts: 101



Thats the kind of change Im talking about when I say I dont want to see units/options nerfed into oblivion and hence have a less dynamic game with less options. I play both Germans and Soviets so dont accuse me of being a 1 faction fan boy please but I really see nothing wrong with the sniper car its annoying thats all, and very easy to take out with a scout car and now after this patch if that happens there is a good chance the sniper will die. This game needs things like being able to put different units in cars for variety and fun. Think about it, take those Russian options away and what is fun about the Russians after that?

P.S. I just played a game 20 minutes ago where a savvy German player sniped my sniper out of the scout car it was brilliant, he waited till I was taking fire from a gren squad then sniped and i lost one, I had no idea I had been sniped I though it was Gren fire and wouldnt happen agian then bam he sniped the second guy right out of the car so there is plenty of ways to deal with it, if you got the motivation to try :D


so germans should get snipers in HTs too then? i dislike snipers in clown cars because it effectively gives them a speed, armor, and lmg cover support that moves with them.

i see your point though, compromise? still can put snipers in, but they only have normal accuracy if HT is stationary and have ~50% accuracy while moving
10 Jul 2013, 04:48 AM
#11
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

can wait to see this patch comes out, 90% German vs 10% Soviet in 2v2 would be awesome
10 Jul 2013, 04:48 AM
#12
avatar of kinki

Posts: 19

I agree with the comment made about the small arms damage tables more than anything.
10 Jul 2013, 05:19 AM
#13
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

I disagree with the OP about MGs. Oorah gives scripts a speed boost already, and you can deal with the MG the same way as you would in COH1.

Of course, buildings is a different story.
10 Jul 2013, 06:39 AM
#14
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
Good, albeit a bit disappointingly small, balance patch that atleast doesnt do anything "wrong".

Remaining issues:
-Flame retreat dmg
-Units in buildings survival
-Sov Muni costs
-Strafing Run
-Shrek single purchase
-Sniper balance
-T70 AI effectiveness
-Doctrine re-shuffles
-Ost AI mine single placement
-Sov AT mine AI nuke dmg
-222 AI
-Stug AoE (unless updated after accidentally left out of last patch)
-Rifle Nade CD/cost bug when not fired
-Medkit viability
-Faust Bug
-PaK viability (its a piece of shit vs all Sov armor)
10 Jul 2013, 06:49 AM
#15
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6

Support units should stay support units, not that they are the whole squad able to do everything, increasing axis support teams to 4 slightly improved their support, but soviet ones are still OP as fook
10 Jul 2013, 08:00 AM
#16
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2013, 03:01 AMInverse
According to Relic devs, the Soviet Scout Car changes actually decrease long-range DPS by 50%, and the accuracy changes impact the accuracy of units inside the SC as well. Just something to keep in mind.


well, halving the accuracy generally results in halving the DPS ;-)
haven't fiddled around with scoutcars and moving accuracy and stuff like that, but i'd doubt it very much that the scoutcar weapon change has an effect on the garrisoned troops.
if that were so, i'd like to know exactly how that works, because using the accuracy of a weapon for another weapon that has nothing to do with the first weapon sounds really sketchy.
10 Jul 2013, 08:06 AM
#17
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

the actually patchnotes
A_E
10 Jul 2013, 08:22 AM
#18
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6

I like the weapon teams increase, it's actually closer to the cannon too, as an MG42 team for example actually had a six man team if possible.
10 Jul 2013, 08:36 AM
#19
avatar of Alties

Posts: 49

Good first balance patch. It'll be interesting to see how it affects the game.
10 Jul 2013, 10:38 AM
#20
avatar of rofltehcat

Posts: 604

Reads very nice. Looking forward to playing it a bit.
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