OKW needs a rework

I thought it had the same firing rate as the PaK. But the narrow arc of fire doesn't really help, that's why I thought it could need some compensation. It's by far the worst dedicated AT unit in the game, but on the other hand OKW doesn't really even need raketens.

if OKW had a proper at gun, they could lose shreks which imo are A) not fun to play against and B) not fun to play with.

Plain and simple:

Side tech for healing, repairs and flak gun
Side tech for incendiary nades
Remove schrecks from volks (you can give double schrecks to Obers for example)
Tonedown vet 5, especially on vehicles.

Once done, lower prices for T4 tanks.

volks should get an AI upgrade, STG's or G43's (for 2 or 3 members of the squad) if they lose shreks and have vet 5 nerfed

I dont know whats worse, if people wanting to change the faction because they want to easy win agains it or the axis fanatics putting themselves into shame

I dont know whats worse, if people wanting to change the faction because they want to easy win agains it or the axis fanatics putting themselves into shame

I think fanbois are always worse. Unacceptable to reasoning.

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I am very aware of these issues, but this thread was about OKW. Not brits or USF. However I think brits still have a lot of BS in their design currently and the USF free units are perhaps unfair in a way. But if I don't mention every single thing that doesn't even have anything to do with this thread, it doesn't mean I think it's fine. If I started listing all the problems in CoH 2, this thread would derail very quickly and it would have to be renamed. Not to even mention how many pages it would take to list all the problems with every faction in one thread.

It is stupid that "basic" stuff like MGs are locked behind commanders. This has been done to USF, Brits and OKW (flamers for USF and brits, MGs for OKW, mines for USF just to name a few). But OKW just has too many benefitting properties in it's design that in combination make it too easy and forgiving to play in my opinion. OKW is such a strong all around faction that can do a bit of everything and do it well.

I dont know whats worse, if people wanting to change the faction because they want to easy win agains it or the axis fanatics putting themselves into shame

How would my suggestions make games vs OKW easy wins? Every other faction literally has it's weapon upgrades and grenades on mainline infantry behind a side tech except wehr. And if side techs would be introduced for OKW too, it would suddenly make games vs OKW easy wins? This doesn't make much sense to me.

I dont know whats worse, if people wanting to change the faction because they want to easy win against it or the axis fanatics putting themselves into shame

+1 This and sturmpio thread....AIDS.

I dont know whats worse, if people wanting to change the faction because they want to easy win agains it or the axis fanatics putting themselves into shame

or is it that they don't want their faction changed for easy wins?

+1 This and sturmpio thread....AIDS.

Read couple of the earlier posts. Seems impossible to have a reasonable discussion based on arguments with some people on this forum. They just come with their cancer/aids/whatever one liners and don't even bother to give counter arguments. Probably don't even have any.

If I made four other threads about Faction X needs a rework they'd just come to every one of them and say the same thing without giving any practical alternate suggestions.

Read couple of the earlier posts. Seems impossible to have a reasonable discussion based on arguments with some people on this forum. They just come with their cancer/aids/whatever one liners and don't even bother to give counter arguments. Probably don't even have any.

If I made four other threads about Faction X needs a rework they'd just come to every one of them and say the same thing without giving any practical alternate suggestions.

I have already given my reason why this faction is perfectly fine in the last page and do not wish to repeat it. If you find something is wrong, then you have the right to post about it but only pointing out one faction while ignoring others is not the way. Crime is crime, wrong is wrong and right is right and it ain't like this is much worse so I will ignore other things. Why? Go ahead...create 4 topics. Let's see how allies fans defend those points. Let's see how much QQ that thread gets or see how good you are in figuring out the problems each faction has.

I have already given my reason why this faction is perfectly fine in the last page and do not wish to repeat it. If you find something is wrong, then you have the right to post about it but only pointing out one faction while ignoring others is not the way. Crime is crime, wrong is wrong and right is right and it ain't like this is much worse so I will ignore other things. Why? Go ahead...create 4 topics. Let's see how allies fans defend those points. Let's see how much QQ that thread gets or see how good you are in figuring out the problems each faction has.

Actually I can link you a post I made where I talk about some of the problems with all factions.

Check my post in this thread: https://www.coh2.org/topic/50627/if-you-were-a-new-balance-tester-on-coh2

Had to make it pretty short but tried to talk about the key problems with every faction.

If you gotta say l2p, then I can say same for you when you are facing okw while adding I have seen pros countering volks easily so what is your problem?

They can be countered, with BARs / M1919 riflemen but the problem is that schrecks on mainline inf kind of enforces blobbing playstyle and countering it forces either blobbing BARs / M1919s against them or maxim spam. And yes, maxim spam is currently way too effective. But the USF 50cal is a joke. Vehicles vs an a-moving schreck blob isn't the best of counters. So we are left with spamming maxims or creating another blob of doom of BAR/LMG infantry.

Rocket artillery is a fine way to counter it, but USF and brits have it only as doctrinal options which is very wrong in terms of design. In general, countering the blobs is much more limited until later stages of the game. Mines can work if the blobber isn't capable of upgrading the minesweeper and using it with his blob. Coming from different directions against the blob can work on some maps as well but it's not an actual counter to it.

What about splitting all the "freebies" into side tech, but meanwhile subtracting the side tech cost from the base tier price. Ultimately, the result would be the same, without difference in resources, but the time of arrival the features that are currently "free" is later. This would make repairs on t2 for example skippable, so a luchs could come earlier fuel wise. But what if the luchs was unlocked by the repairs? This would result in the luchs being a little later than normal. Of course, there are many subtle ways to tinker with fuel costs, side tech splitting/unlocking and building times, but I doubt that relic has enough patience and long term consistency/commitment towards these kinds of major (imo) design changes. Those take thorough evaluation, planning and observation. I don't claim to be super savvy of the balance meta right now, I haven't played enough at all to claim a said change in this or that direction might be good or bad for the game, I'm merely interested in the designing and balancing process and like to think of ways to manipulate tech trees/build orders and costs and to observe the result.

They can be countered, with BARs / M1919 riflemen but the problem is that schrecks on mainline inf kind of enforces blobbing playstyle and countering it forces either blobbing BARs / M1919s against them or maxim spam. And yes, maxim spam is currently way too effective. But the USF 50cal is a joke. Vehicles vs an a-moving schreck blob isn't the best of counters. So we are left with spamming maxims or creating another blob of doom of BAR/LMG infantry.

Rocket artillery is a fine way to counter it, but USF and brits have it only as doctrinal options which is very wrong in terms of design. In general, countering the blobs is much more limited until later stages of the game. Mines can work if the blobber isn't capable of upgrading the minesweeper and using it with his blob. Coming from different directions against the blob can work on some maps as well but it's not an actual counter to it.

So you are countering blob with blob and that is exactly what I am doing as okw too. I cannot even stand upto rifleman, IS early game. My panther cannot kill a jackson that outrange it and has a support of a blob carry bazookas and bars. Volks are the only thing that keeps okw in the game. Panther (cost 200 fuels), etc, are more of a support unit instead of being a spearhead. OKW does not even have MGs to stop that blob marching onto you and owning you. Seeing your tank getting outranged and knowing you cannot counter it because you lack range really hurts. Speed of a panther cannot work most of the time. Now what faust is gonna do? Engine damage and then what? USF can get out and get in and boom! engine is ready to go. Faust won't even pen comet/churchill. Volks are completely fine. If I don't see many TDs, I don't build many of them. It is just a counter to a counter. Even a pak40 can't do anything without mg support to hold the allies blob.

Yeah I agree that the problem stems from the USF / OKW design, which both kind of support the blobbing gameplay. Which is pretty dull to play with and against, either for axis/allies.

The problem with schreck blobs is though, that they counter early light vehicles without any effort and only benefit the OKW in terms of very easy veterancy - making the late game blobs even better. You don't see USF bazooka blobs that often though, if never, because it's behind a side tech. It could be the much needed fix for OKW too.

The blobbing problem exists because the USF's only non doctrinal combat infantry unit is the rifleman squad, therefore you just blob riflemen - which are still relatively cheap. This forces the OKW to blob their infantry as well. Blobbing could be changed if all factions had a decent all-rounder unit but also dedicated (and non-doctrinal, more expensive) anti-infantry and anti-tank infantry units that would excel at their spesific roles.

Total rework? Maybe if you ask that question a few months ago, now thats a different story. For once ibthink they are closer to being balance now then before since theybwent ahead ans balance some of the units out and made it into a normal income/ normal army. I would only suggest a few minor changes.

1. Shrecks
2. Repair/heal/flak needs to be place in a upgrade option since resources no longer a problem.
3. Minor unit adjusments with clear weakness, no mainline infantry cant be anti everthing, no panzer fusliers cant be good at all ranges and only cost 10 more MP then rifleman etc..

Tech 1 building that allows them to have all what soviets have to get by upgrading ( Medics + flame grenade which are better than molies) while soviets/USF/UK have basically to spend double this price without being sure of the outcome since it's part of the micro.

In other words, okw can just sit down and have it all from building t1/t2 while others have to make a choice and spend extra MP/Fuel.

But sure, okw isn't overperforming.

I think OKW has two real problems:

- Flawed tech structure with only two (or three, if you include the HQ) tiers
- Shrecks

Just make OKW have to make choices on Volks honestly that's it. Have to research Flame grenades and make a dedicated AT Volks squad. I don't think they need to get nerfed to the ground as they really aren't that OP

Like have to decide between a normal 5 man volks squad or a 4 man squad with a Schreck

Oh and replace the base Flak cannons to not being able to target planes because that's bullshit and has no argument for why it should be kept.

Just make OKW have to make choices on Volks honestly that's it. Have to research Flame grenades and make a dedicated AT Volks squad. I don't think they need to get nerfed to the ground as they really aren't that OP

Like have to decide between a normal 5 man volks squad or a 4 man squad with a Schreck

Oh and replace the base Flak cannons to not being able to target planes because that's bullshit and has no argument for why it should be kept.

A couple of people have thought I want to nerf OKW to the ground, but that's not the case. I don't want any faction to underperform. I suggested many changes but it doesn't mean I want OKW to suck, I just basically want to make it like other factions with side techs and having units that have more dedicated roles and not so much "free" stuff that makes them too forgiving to play.