Too much for one HMG (MG-42)

Could it be that your are confusing Ostheer with OKW? Shreks for Ost are behind tier 2 with is expensive and are also an upgrade to 4 man Panzergrenadiers which are a bit fragile.

On OKW MG42 its the MG34 which is far worse.

Compare it with USSR with absolutelty NO AT weapons for infantry in any tiers. And no real light vechiles untill T3.

My idea is simple:

1. Take out from MG-42 AP rounds, because Axis has a lot of other AT already, they don't need more of that.

Or

2. Give to USSR non-doctrinal PTRS packs for conscripts or penals and let AP rounds for MG-42 be.

That's just not fair, that one faction has a lot of AT, AI and other stuff, while another doesn't.

And to that faction with a lot of AT they adding 1 more, ignoring lack of AT in USSR. I just can't understand this.

1. MG-42 should not be able to destroy light vechicles and tanks, like it do now. For that, Wehrmacht should use another units, like Panzergrenadeers or same 222 cars. They all are good in that.

So, I suggest to change that "AP flame rounds" ability with something else. It is impossible to watch, how your T3 T-70 tears apart with 1-2 bursts by T0 Anti-infantry unit MG-42.

P.S Yes, we know about DShK MG with same impossible AT abilities, but it is doctrinal one, and it putted in only 2 doctrines. One of them (defences) is 100% useless and I never saw somebody using it, so we have only one real doctrine with DShK (Lend-Lease), which is definetly not enough for such requierd for USSR unit.

Mg-42 seems fine to me. It doesn't really "destroy" light vehicles, incendiary rounds are a soft counter that OST needs (ignoring new 222 as I haven't tested it enough yet) against allied light vehicle rushes. It's easy to avoid and mostly results in denying an area for vehicles during the duration.

You shouldn't really compare it to the maxim, they are completely different units spite both being HMGs. One is static and defensive, the other mobile and offensive. A comparison with the vickers hmg will be more accurate.

Mg-42 seems fine to me. It doesn't really "destroy" light vehicles, incendiary rounds are a soft counter that OST needs (ignoring new 222 as I haven't tested it enough yet) against allied light vehicle rushes. It's easy to avoid and mostly results in denying an area for vehicles during the duration.

You shouldn't really compare it to the maxim, they are completely different units spite both being HMGs. One is static and defensive, the other mobile and offensive. A comparison with the vickers hmg will be more accurate.

For God sake, problem is not in MG itself! Problem is in "how much AT powers have each side". Axis has enough AT and would have enough even without AP in MG-42. But USSR hardly suffer without early and simple AT guns, like same PTRS or DShK.

I just ask to balance AT powers of side, I don't care about MGs.

Compare it with USSR with absolutelty NO AT weapons for infantry in any tiers. And no real light vechiles untill T3.

Same goes for OST and barrage ability. Not only ZIS has that but for OST it's only the Brummbär which is in T4 and not that good cause of the price. But that's all fine because asymmetrical balance is a good thing IMHO. I mean wouldn't it be boring if OST and Soviets would have acces to the same tools without being good in one specific job? Every faction has strengths and weaknesses unice to them. Try playing with all the factions and you'll soon find that OST has plenty.

And I've your being honest your T70 won't just vapourate in a second if you encounter an MG42. Support it with Inf, attack from several angles and the MG won't have a chance. It's almost a wipe guarantee.

mg42 vs maxim on non-green cover = maxim pin mg42 first or atleast cause both to be pinned totally.

So a-move maxim to fight mg42, when pinned. Oraah cons to flank or just walk to it and force it to retreat. If really makes you so much trouble, just get molotovs and focus getting muni early game. 1 cons oraah/molotov will force relocate when u can bring another squad or maxim to force retreat on mg42 and molotov > garrison.

mg42 laser bullets makes me smile everytime i see it but why these bullets dont penetrate sherman

im rank 130 1v1 with soviets, i use the barrage several times every game. huh what now?
im rank 300 with ostheer, how often did i use ap rounds of mg42? maybe like 4 times in my 100 ostheer games, why? because noone is stupid enough to stay in its arc combined with the reload animation of 2 seconds.

I've successfully used the barrage ability of zis together with a single mortar barrage to destroy okw flak hq quite quick. Dunno if i where lucky with the hits but it has worked three times for me. People really should learn to use the zis more.

MissCommissar, the reason everyone is talking about the mg42 is because that is the topic of the post you created. If you have an issue with the supposed imbalance of early AT options between factions make a post about that.

Have you never used mines before as soviets? They cost the same as incendiary rounds at 30 munitions, and have the added bonus of potential squad wipes. Perhaps you should learn to use the tools you have available.

Soviets do not require a tier building to get cons and AT nades.

MG-42 is definitely best MG in game.

That honorable title belongs to Vickers and Maxim.


L2P and move on.

The MG42 is the only unit that currently prevents Ostheer from instantly disintegrating from the game. It´s the Ostheer core unit and it´s perfectly fine at the moment. Touch it even slightly and you kill Ostheer.

I've successfully used the barrage ability of zis together with a single mortar barrage to destroy okw flak hq quite quick. Dunno if i where lucky with the hits but it has worked three times for me. People really should learn to use the zis more.

maxim suppress+ barrage often results in nasty damage/squadwipes too.

maxim suppress+ barrage often results in nasty damage/squadwipes too.

Yeah people keeps underestimating Zis barrage, for 60 muni it is really nasty: Zis barrage + Maxim horde = truck ownage.

Yeah people keeps underestimating Zis barrage, for 60 muni it is really nasty: Zis barrage + Maxim horde = truck ownage.

especially since munition doenst really matter since you only got a few muni sinks and mines are pretty cheap you always flood 100+

MG-42 is definitely best MG in game. It has super-wide arc of fire, fast supression with ridiculously big AoE around of fire target, high damamge even at long ranges and more than that - ability, which can destroy even light tanks, like T-70 or Stuart!!!

Isn't it too much, specially last one? I mean, Wehrmacht may not use AT in early game at all, because Vet 1 MG-42 can counter any light vechicle, from M3 and WC51 to AEC and T-70 (which is T3 unit for 70 fuel, lol).

Meanwhile, USSR has to use Maxims with smallest arc of fire in game, which requiers 10 times more micro from player, has low AoE of supression and no AT functions. Early USSR has serious problems with AT at all, specialy with those new Sdkfz 222 and Luchses. Only early AT for USSR is ZiS-3, which can't be really effective against fast cars and AT nades, which you have to get for 25 fuel, while Wehrmacht getting more powerfull (look at stats) Panzerfaust for free. That's what I call "Balance".

So, here we pointed our problem:

1. MG-42 should not be able to destroy light vechicles and tanks, like it do now. For that, Wehrmacht should use another units, like Panzergrenadeers or same 222 cars. They all are good in that.

So, I suggest to change that "AP flame rounds" ability with something else. It is impossible to watch, how your T3 T-70 tears apart with 1-2 bursts by T0 Anti-infantry unit MG-42.

P.S Yes, we know about DShK MG with same impossible AT abilities, but it is doctrinal one, and it putted in only 2 doctrines. One of them (defences) is 100% useless and I never saw somebody using it, so we have only one real doctrine with DShK (Lend-Lease), which is definetly not enough for such requierd for USSR unit.

Maxims A-move requires more micro lol

For God sake, problem is not in MG itself! Problem is in "how much AT powers have each side". Axis has enough AT and would have enough even without AP in MG-42. But USSR hardly suffer without early and simple AT guns, like same PTRS or DShK.

I just ask to balance AT powers of side, I don't care about MGs.

You should put some thought into making a thread with a more appropiate title, and an op that's more clearly discussing what you intend to discuss, if you get worked up by those kind of responses. Comparing mg-42 with maxim in the op (e.g. cone width) is misleading for example.

To discuss the issue you now mention, ost have enough AT but not at all stages of the game* (*may have with the improved 222, as I said, haven't tested it enough just yet). They are/were suffering from early light vehicle rushes from mainly UKF and USF. Does the mg-42 need the incendiary rounds? Perhaps not. Is it broken OP? Absolutely not.

Soviets do not suffer from lack of early AT imo, PTRS, nades, ZIS and light vehicles are sufficient to counter any light vehicles that OST & OKW can throw at you. Late game AT are clearly inferior though, but not as much as it becomes a huge problem.

For God sake, problem is not in MG itself! Problem is in "how much AT powers have each side". Axis has enough AT and would have enough even without AP in MG-42. But USSR hardly suffer without early and simple AT guns, like same PTRS or DShK.

I just ask to balance AT powers of side, I don't care about MGs.

So lets compare RU AT with OST AT till T2
T1:
OH has faust,with vet1 mg42 (this will take some time)incendiary rounds (IR) and mines

RU has acces to Zis mines and is able to upgrate for AT nades.

T2:
OH has pak, schrecks and 222

RU gets su-76 and in chase of a light vehicle the AA HT as well.

The main problem with the "superior" OH AT is it needs a lot of ammunition (50 for mines, 10 for faust, 120 for schrecks and 30 for IR)+ vet. ammunition you need for other upgrates like mg42 for grens. RU has most of the time plenty of ammu for mines, sprint + AT nades due to their early strength and has a good AT gun since T1 (which has AI abilitys as well) and a maxim able to damage light vehicles.
You cannot exclude doctrinal bound abilitys like PTRS or Dshk because the are part of the game and thus need to be considered and counterable.

Concluded i would consider the AT situation balanced. GEt over it, the days of terminator T-70 are over. From now on you have to work for your victory.

You completely lost me. Are we talking about HMG42 or about general faction design, tech costs and AT options?

HMG42 is fine, Maxim is fine. Different unit, different roles. If you seriously lose Stuart or T70 to HMG42, you need to work on you skill.

Seriously, Smoke n Flank.

If you loose a T70 or stuart to an MG42 you are really really bad.
Incendiary ammunition needs to be reloaded, which takes time and you can see if someone's shooting....stopped shooting and loading the the new ammunition.
Ah and btw its not like "BAM" the MG42 hits the field and is vet1. Enough time to use your M3 and WC51. Oh and for the AEC ever heard the word smoke?

Smoke and flank and of course L2P

+1

You completely lost me. Are we talking about HMG42 or about general faction design, tech costs and AT options?

HMG42 is fine, Maxim is fine. Different unit, different roles. If you seriously lose Stuart or T70 to HMG42, you need to work on you skill.

Seriously, Smoke n Flank.

We always talking about general faction design, even if we actually talk about just 1 unit.

And I think there are big problems in USSR design, specially in AT section. USSR is only faction without stock AT weapons for infantry, cos PTRS is only docttrinal. USSR has real problems with dealing with early light vechile attack, specially since 222 got HP buff without increasing it's price.

And MG-42 in that situation, for me, is greatest sign of how Relic "care" about faction's design balance in game. While USSR has no real options against axis light vechiles and don't have real light vechiles itself, they getting all good AT tools to Axis, which would be good enough even without them.

I want to take out AP flame rounds from MG-42, because it is insulting me deeply. Even ****ing MG of germany can effectivly fight against vechiles and tanks, while USSR getting PTRS's with doctrines, DShKs with doctrines... No early AT at all!

Mines and grenades are good, but its way harder to use mines and grenades, than just give Panzerscheck to soldiers and push right button on vechile you need to be dead. Or put MG-42 in building and just press 1 button "AP flame" when you getting light vechiles in sight. That's you, axis defenders, who wants easy life and game, not allies. And seems, like you will fight for that easy life and game untill your death...

Just damn give more AT options for USSR, because without them they acting like they are "crippled". They are crippled already with their dependece of doctrines. There is no other faction, which so hardly depends on doctrine you play with.