I strongly dislike chateau de luvnest

Besides the first opening sentence....blah blah blah.

My post was addressing the first sentence. A map maker takes his time to create something for the community for free on his own time. I would think you might want to defend THAT person instead of the one shitting all over him.

Anyways, trash me or the map maker now. I'm done with this thread.

This holds true as long as the map isn't implemented into AUTOMATCH. Time investment doesn't justify a map if it significantly worsens the playing experience for the average automatch player.

Besides the first opening sentence....blah blah blah.

My post was addressing the first sentence. A map maker takes his time to create something for the community for free on his own time. I would think you might want to defend THAT person instead of the one shitting all over him.

Anyways, trash me or the map maker now. I'm done with this thread.

So what?

Sittard Summer was a community maps.
Is it a shit map? Yes.
Can I critize the map? Yes.
Can I critize the guy who makes flawed maps? Yes.
Why do we care if the mapmaker spend any time making it?
As long as we're concerned, It is cancerous to competitive automatch.

EDIT: in case no one knows, the name of the map is "Chateau de-luv-nest" (2-4 players)

I love the criticisms of a mapmaker by people who have never even attempted to make one.

Think you can do better?

Put up or shut up. Or at the very least show some damn manners.

Entitled whiny babies. Good lord.

People do not need to commit genocide to be able to state how wrong it is. With your logic 99% of the world's population are not entitled to whine or even vote in elections.
In fact, every authoritarian regime in history thinks and operate along this same mentality. You're not allowed to say how wrong Der Fuhrer is unless you've done more than mere SS Concentration Camp duties. And I would think of all moderator behaviours, to tell people to have manners after demonstrating poorly is arguably more shameful.

If you actually used your brain when reading (beyond the first sentence), it is clear the frustration is a poorly designed map that made it into automatch. Shitty map is shitty and is the fault of the creator...but implementing it into automatch isn't. If I was the map maker (and I have made maps, they are not easy, but that doesn't mean you can just make shitty maps and say you're one of the world's better cartographers; I know because they were mostly crap maps) I would scratch my head and wonder why on earth they decided to put it in.

There are loads of shitty maps in Workshop, why do you think the OP focused specifically on a particular one?
Answer is obvious: the map is in automatch which means everyone has to deal with it. That is where the frustration lies. Ordering people to live with poorly made designs and decisions isn't a solution to them...though it is clear it's a solution to you. Where did you grow up, North Korea? If there's anyone whining like an entitled baby, look at the mirror.

As for the map in question: removing the mud sounds like it would remove the problems the OP is listing. Hill 331 had its mud removed precisely because of manoeuvrability issues (though bear in mind, that map is a huge 4v4 map).
Now Hill 400, that map is really nice; despite being a 4v4 map, it's rather small size means you can probably play it as a 2-4 with little difference. No mud, and lots of places to flank, or get flanked. With the right players you get a tense confined battle.

I love the criticisms of a mapmaker by people who have never even attempted to make one.

Think you can do better?

Put up or shut up. Or at the very least show some damn manners.

Entitled whiny babies. Good lord.

Many good movie critics have never made a movie in their life.
The consumer is a fickle captain.
Your comment is equivalent to Masahiro Sakurai's "Have you ever made a game?"

With all due respect to the creator of the map... it was an extremely un-fun experience to play.

Mud in so many important areas was goofy. Fences in really vital spots near cutoffs to screw up pathing or force constant vaulting was goofy. Too much different height terrain was goofy. Too many large structures blocking vision was goofy, too many choke points/areas where units clump up was goofy.

The map is pretty but... poorly designed for playing at the moment.

Just a shame Relic shoves these maps down our throats. We should be able to turn off automatching into community maps if we want.

EDIT: in case no one knows, the name of the map is "Chateau de-luv-nest" (2-4 players)

People do not need to commit genocide to be able to state how wrong it is. With your logic 99% of the world's population are not entitled to whine or even vote in elections.
In fact, every authoritarian regime in history thinks and operate along this same mentality. You're not allowed to say how wrong Der Fuhrer is unless you've done more than mere SS Concentration Camp duties. And I would think of all moderator behaviours, to tell people to have manners after demonstrating poorly is arguably more shameful.

If you actually used your brain when reading (beyond the first sentence), it is clear the frustration is a poorly designed map that made it into automatch. Shitty map is shitty and is the fault of the creator...but implementing it into automatch isn't.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Just because someone made the map for free doesn't mean we should be blind to any (possible) flaws in the map.

That "can you make a better one yourself, lol" argument is so dumb, yet people keep using it over and over again.

Put up or shut up. Or at the very least show some damn manners.

Entitled whiny babies. Good lord.

Oh, the irony. Moderator of the year, right here.

am i the only one who likes the map as a whole, sure the mud could be less/ removed, but over all this map has potential

Im glad to see, that they put some more maps into the automatch. (community maps)
People on coh2.org will always find something to complain about. You guys would be the perfect germans always complain about something

I love the criticisms of a mapmaker by people who have never even attempted to make one.

Think you can do better?

Put up or shut up. Or at the very least show some damn manners.

Entitled whiny babies. Good lord.

Whiteflash always got non mapmaking friends to test his maps and give feedback on how it played. Not endorsing being rude, but you don't have to be a mapmaker yourself to have valid opinions on something that can be changed or improved.

Poor designe map, dont like it (give more veto relic). I do not think that game like coh need so hill in automatch in 2v2 or 1v1 map.

I'm sorry for the mapmaker but I assume my words. We are speaking of maps to which purpose is to be enjoyable when played, not canvas to be printed in your bedroom wall.
Making a map beautiful with a lot of details isn't making of you a good mapmaker. Ensuring the map is balanced and provides an acceptable level of gameplay does.
Appreciation on canvas are subjective from your personal preferences in matter of art. I'll never say a canvas is a piece of shit because I dislike it.
Appreciation on map balance/gameplay are based on real mechanisms and acceptable design. When a map doesn't respect any of them or shows a true evidences to favor a certain camping/arty spam game style which is definitively not what the game design wants to achieve, yes I say there is a problem with the mapmaker and I say he does shit.

Now there are people who likes it, like Schled or Sittard Summer. Good for them, but they should try tower defense games instead of COh2 or build a tower defense mod.

I also agree on the fact it is probably not 100% his fault, he didn't ask to have the map in the automatch and Relic, as always has a part of responsibility in it.

+1 Fuck that luvnest map. Why do they keep throwing shit maps into auto?!

When you write in this fashion, I struggle to understand how you exist in an academic environment, TBH.

When you write in this fashion, I struggle to understand how you exist in an academic environment, TBH.

coz dis ist de internet, on a forum with NK mods.

I love the criticisms of a mapmaker by people who have never even attempted to make one.

Think you can do better?

Put up or shut up. Or at the very least show some damn manners.

Entitled whiny babies. Good lord.

The map makers can do what ever the hell they want. "Any and All" criticism should be directed to relic, since they are the ones deciding which map enters the map pool. They have to adjust the map for Ranked games.

This is the exact case we had with Sittard. A lot of people attacked the map maker and he defended his map fiercely, but the fault was Relic's.

If you don't like it, veto it
If you like it, don't veto it

This is why several people don't like it:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/46183/guide-to-competitive-map-making

TL;DOpen:

-Water: "red cover must be used economically". It could also be heavy snow, in this case mud.
-Hedgerows that smartly divide the map
-Minimum height differentiation: The game engine does not handle elevation well
-Wide front-line due to smart territory placements
-No dominating building
-Be open: Do not cluster up too much and provide lots of access ways.
-Last but not least: Do NOT place fences in front of the bases!

Making a map look pretty is hard. I've spent countless hours making maps in the Worldbuilder.

Making a map competitively balanced is also hard. Getting feedback whatsoever is hard. Until you have players the best you can manage is the AI or your friends' time to try a broken map.

Best way for a map to improve is to have it played. Starting with a pretty picture is a whole lot nicer than starting with an ugly one.

I'm sorry for the mapmaker but I assume my words. We are speaking of maps to which purpose is to be enjoyable when played, not canvas to be printed in your bedroom wall.
Making a map beautiful with a lot of details isn't making of you a good mapmaker. Ensuring the map is balanced and provides an acceptable level of gameplay does.
Appreciation on canvas are subjective from your personal preferences in matter of art. I'll never say a canvas is a piece of shit because I dislike it.
....

im sorry to break it to you but most ppl who play community maps in custom matches love shit maps. so for all we know, this map is a fantastically made map in that sense.

the blame solely lies on relic who chose to put it in the game. and ppl who either suggested this map and ppl who were in position to advise relic about this but did not.