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USF LT Tier issues

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Super Bumble-B
20 Feb 2016, 13:18 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Feb 2016, 13:06 PMRedT3rror
Don't be silly. After all the M20 gets a massive 50% penetration buff at vet3. :sibHyena:


I think it only happened to me twice in my entire COH2-Life time...

... And was insta-wiped by a Jadtiger or volks blob before I can ever really see the potential of a Vet 3 M20 :B
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bert69
20 Feb 2016, 14:32 PM
#22
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m20 timing is very important in that it comes out most of the time when okw only has one shreck
Focusing fire on that one shreck squad or microing the m20 to push the shreck model around basically grants you the entire map because of lack of anti vehicle snares.
Additionally using this map control to float fuel for major is no longer possible because as you said okw can get a quick luchs, so teching captain and building a stuart if you want can help you maintain that map control and pressure on his volks squads.
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PencilBatRation
20 Feb 2016, 20:27 PM
#23
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@bert69;


Actually the M20 arrives at a time when there are 2 shrecks, a puppchen and possibly a luchs waiting for it.


It has to do with the new early-game aggressive OKW meta.
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dasheepeh
20 Feb 2016, 20:44 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Feb 2016, 20:27 PMPencilBatRation
@bert69;


Actually the M20 arrives at a time when there are 2 shrecks, a puppchen and possibly a luchs waiting for it.


It has to do with the new early-game aggressive OKW meta.


you are retarded. or not playing the same game as i do.
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PencilBatRation
20 Feb 2016, 21:01 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Feb 2016, 20:44 PMdasheepeh


you are retarded. or not playing the same game as i do.
OKW underwent a massive overhaul, check it out.


I mean play a match, OKW controlling both fuel points early game is not uncommon.
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some one
20 Feb 2016, 21:13 PM
#26
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1 AT gun into LT tier
2 Scoot into Captain tier
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Bananenheld
20 Feb 2016, 21:34 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Feb 2016, 21:01 PMPencilBatRation
OKW underwent a massive overhaul, check it out.


I mean play a match, OKW controlling both fuel points early game is not uncommon.

I strongly disagree. It Sounds more like a outplay if okw is controlIng both fuels. Even if he does you can go for a cutoff since he obv concentrated his forces in both fuels so he cant have any force at his cutoff. If he has strong enough forced at both fuels and at his cutoff you simply got outplayed HARD.Period.

Or you play 4v4 random with 3 afk's.

never saw Holding both fuels in 1v1 and 2v2 without beeing outplayed/ missplayed by myself
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G4bb4_G4nd4lf
20 Feb 2016, 21:38 PM
#28
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USF tier structure is kinda weird. It should be:

Starting fuel: 20

Lieutenant (20F):

HMG / Pack Howie / ATG

Captain (40F requires LT):

M20 / AA HT / Stuart

Major (110F requires Cpt):

No changes.

This should allow USF to actually have access to all basic support weapons (HMGs, ATGs, indirect fire) relatively early.

Light vehicles are locked behind 60 fuel (80 for Soviet T3, 60 for Ost T2); Medium tanks are locked behind 170 fuel (180 for Pr0stheer / 170 for Soviets).

EDIT: The LT himself would probably come out too early. He shouldn't be free then, I guess.
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Vuther
20 Feb 2016, 22:09 PM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Feb 2016, 21:38 PMG4bb4_G4nd4lf
EDIT: The LT himself would probably come out too early. He shouldn't be free then, I guess.

They really should just remove those, only one where it's basically fine is Major because he barely affects field presence, especially with how late he arrives.

Yes, and make OKW trucks not give healing/repairs/flak for free, not forgetting that.
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SupremeStefan
20 Feb 2016, 22:19 PM
#30
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Feb 2016, 10:43 AMKyleAkira


AT gun buildable on HQ and unlocked after Lieut or Capt is build.


and mortar in captain tier.. I can't imagine anything better than this :rolleyes:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429076979 <- check my map
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GiaA
20 Feb 2016, 23:59 PM
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M20 doesn't counter a well used sniper.
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HelpingHans
21 Feb 2016, 00:22 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Feb 2016, 21:35 PMcomm_ash


Reduce the build time of the m20. The LT already takes a very long time to build, and the build time of the m20 limits it's impact on the field quite heavily. Ostheer has fausts, and can already softcounter the m20 regardless of t2 being up. This will give USF a little larger of a window to make a play and kill the sniper.

Increase the penetration of the .50 to make it a True soft light vehicle counter. I would like to see the .50 have ~15 pen, so that it can give lt tier a little bit of a defense against enemy vehicles, as well as increase the utility of the .50.

What do you guys think?


...

I am sorry but really? Are you seriously putting forward these suggestions right now? Ostheer already has to research tier 2, build Tier2 and then and only then can Ostheer build a unit that can effectively counter an m20. Lets compare that to the USF teching shall we? When USF techs they get a LT or a captain right? So that automatically puts Ost at a disadvantage because USF will always have one extra squad in the early game because of these current differences in teching. On top of that the m20 (if the USF player is playing correctly) will always get an m20 out before a 222 and let me get this straight, you are also suggesting that the m20 should have better pen on its .50 so it can counter it's counter?



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Vuther
21 Feb 2016, 00:33 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Feb 2016, 00:22 AMHelpingHans
and let me get this straight, you are also suggesting that the m20 should have better pen on its .50 so it can counter it's counter?

Actually, I believe comm_ash was saying to improve the M2HB heavy machine gun team's penetration stat.
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CookiezNcreem
21 Feb 2016, 01:07 AM
#34
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reading comprehension OP
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MarkedRaptor
21 Feb 2016, 01:46 AM
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I do feel like the LT is becoming a liability tier. I often find that I can't go 3 Rifles into LT because OKW will overwhelm me, and I must go 4 rifles which leads better into captain anyways. I think it takes a minute and 30 seconds for an LT to come out? Against Ostheer you have a bigger window, but the new 222 buff will make it feel inadequate.

There's nothing wrong with the M20 as a unit, this is just a result of the USF tier system depriving tools and light vehicle play being powerful and early.












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Firesparks
21 Feb 2016, 01:46 AM
#36
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jump backJump back to quoted post20 Feb 2016, 21:38 PMG4bb4_G4nd4lf
USF tier structure is kinda weird. It should be:

Starting fuel: 20

Lieutenant (20F):

HMG / Pack Howie / ATG

Captain (40F requires LT):

M20 / AA HT / Stuart

Major (110F requires Cpt):

No changes.

This should allow USF to actually have access to all basic support weapons (HMGs, ATGs, indirect fire) relatively early.

Light vehicles are locked behind 60 fuel (80 for Soviet T3, 60 for Ost T2); Medium tanks are locked behind 170 fuel (180 for Pr0stheer / 170 for Soviets).

EDIT: The LT himself would probably come out too early. He shouldn't be free then, I guess.


LT cost should be 280mp 20 fuel, but I do like the placement of all the support weapon in one location.


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Looney
21 Feb 2016, 02:09 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Feb 2016, 00:22 AMHelpingHans


...



I think Ost still outnumbers USF with the extra MP they start with early game, not to mention the units (except hmg42) build faster then rifles.
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d0ggY
21 Feb 2016, 03:15 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Feb 2016, 02:09 AMLooney


I think Ost still outnumbers USF with the extra MP they start with early game, not to mention the units (except hmg42) build faster then rifles.


Also they mostly die much faster and are on the battlefield earlier since you can cap rightout from the beginning of the game :<
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Thamor
21 Feb 2016, 03:16 AM
#39
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o_O

Just wondering if people really even play USF? USF rekts Ostheer early game and it even gets worse with light vehicle play. And now because USF players can't troll 24/7 with their "Self-repairing vehicles" they want the only real counter to be countered instantly when a player goes for it...

And does people even know you don't need captain to have bazookas, just tech them out, use the early power of infantry to have that ammo...

I don't play this game that much as some proplayers here and mainly play ostheer only (like challenge). Have played allies, because my friends want the easier path. USF have always been really strong and the early advantage for map control just make it so much harder for axis.

ps. The early manpower goes to the building, that you have to "BUILD" for you to even get infantry...
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Tanker
21 Feb 2016, 03:25 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Feb 2016, 00:33 AMVuther

Actually, I believe comm_ash was saying to improve the M2HB heavy machine gun team's penetration stat.


According to "War Thunder" the .50cal HMG have 28mm penetration at ma enough to take down 222 with ease :hyper::loco:
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