panzergrenadier and the schreck upgrade

PZgrens with 1 shrek would be nice for 1v1 and 2v2, but 3v3 and 4v4 i can see it being spammed, blobbed and counter everything

I can sort of see it but that depends on the counter. MGs, would stop them. Snipers would stop them. Mortars would rip 'em. You gotta' understand that that is a huge MP drain and to maintain. In late team games since you can see i'm a noob 4s player, long range guards, rifles, IS, close range rangers, paras, and shocks would beat them. it's not like they're rolling over cons like they used to.

(Long-ass post)

I will state my argument more clearly in the interest of not being misinterpreted : I am opposed specifically to double Panzerschreck upgrade because it allows accumulating a critical mass of Schrecks (at significant cost, to be sure, but still) that have the potential to alphastrike-oneshot Allied medium tanks.

In all likelihood the Schrecks will never be reverted to one and there are much larger fish to fry at the moment in the game. What I take issue with is people using the appeal to the state of the game as it was years ago. Yes, old PGs were more expensive but it also took 3 days to drop a single model which inordinately buffed them as the assault troops, it comes from the time when veterancy was different, remember Wehrmacht vet2 defensive bonuses? Cause I do. Weapons worked differently, hell, even teching and tier placement was different. People are jumping at boogeymen here, panzergrenadiers are far more problematic as a blob of antitank alpha-strikers than they might ever be as an uber-expensive anti-infantry blob that happens to have 1 Schreck per squad.

Hell, at this point, I am not even arguing so much for a single-schreck upgrade (yes, I think it would improve the game, but maybe it's a shit opinion). But what I am saying with certainty is that any appeal to "it was tried in the Alpha and didn't work" is completely and absolutely pointless. Alpha was a COMPLETELY different game, you might as well be talking about CoH1. Different age, different game, literally nothing stands anymore.

All factions have their share of generalists and crippling specialization is OKW's shtick. Wehr does have generalists (aforementioned PzIV and even Panther to an extent). But you exaggerate the potential of all Axis units, as usual, and insist on flawed analogies, quoting similarities to Volks when it suits you (a single Schreck on an infantry unit, oh no!) while completely skirting around the obvious things that invalidate the analogy, such as the fact Volks have a forward retreat point, are far more resilient and can afford to retreat much later, and the fact Panzergrenadier blobs are a real pain in the anti-armour department and are not, and have never been, a pain in anti-infantry duty (cf. Obers with mp44 for that particular role).

Volksgrens example pretty much proves that it still is a dreadful idea.

I think it's just a matter of strength, cost and efficiency. It's not like people mix bazooka and bar all that much. People either use dual bar or dual bazooka, but not mix bar and bazooka.

If it does well and is not broken, why change it?

By it, I mean panzergrenadier streck upgrade.

remove shreks give them Panzerbüchse 39

With single schreck they were great AI (3 STGs) and good AT at once.

Like volks are now, for their price at least. A very good all around unit

*necro*

I hope that we all, now, realize what #VetGate means with respect to Panzergrenadiers.
- Vet3 Panzergrenadiers are absolute beasts vs infantry
- Shrecks (like all slotted weapons) would transfer to the most ancient (and most-vetted) squad members
- Thus, upgraded Pgrens would lose their AI veterancy bonuses much faster than other squads

Post-Vetgate:
- Schrecked Pgrens will keep benefiting from their schreck veterancy
- We'll have to see just how dodgy their AI performance remains post-patch

Corollary (until Vetgate is fixed):
- The G43 upgrade might actually be useful for PGrens nowadays (if you aren't afraid of the weapon-piñata effect)

PG are simply to expensive for their performance...
Pg should come with 2 ST44 and cost around 280-300.
Then they could have 3 different upgrade available:
1+1 shrecks replacing the ST44
2 ST44

doctrinal 2 G43 (could be mutually exclusive with shreck upgrade if needed...)

That would probably solve most of their issues.