Lengthening and Enhancing the Infantry Combat

As the title clearly suggests, lengthening the early game with infantry play would make the game better imo.
Don't know exactly how to implement such a thing but either reducing fuel income or increasing teching would be the way to go. The worst thing in this game is maybe the Volksspam with schreks but A tank spam like 3 Panzer4s or 4 Cromwells also renders the game ultra cheesy. I really like Tank stuff thus having a one single tank that hits the field around 20 minute mark to do something on its own with some infantry support wouldve felt good. Keeping your tanks alive wouldve ment more. We could even have a relationship with our troops that went veteran for some crap and could give our tanks names through vet.
Last but not least, every tank hits the field may reduce the fuel income according to its fuel cost and such..
To sum up, what I really mean is getting stuart, aec or t70 at 12 minute mark getting your Panzer4 or Sherman at 25 minute mark and maybe getting Comet Tiger Pershing at 30 Minute mark even with a good fuel control would make the game a better game. This can give mines ultra super duper advantageous play so make them cost more and not a guaranteed engine kill.

I think that capping circles and standardized capping rates combined with a lack of effective early side grade tech other than USF nades accelerates the early game.

I would like to see them add a reason to not go for light vehicles. Right now every faction goes for light vehicle rush, it would be good if there was a reason to quick tech tanks, which would still come out later and prolong infantry play.

I would increase the time it takes for teching to complete, kind of like how long it takes in the spearhead mod (mostly ostheer).

there are multiple reasons why the timing in this game is so uninterrupted compared to say, dow2. personally, i would not only like for more infantry/support weapon/very light vehicle play but also more play with light/medium tanks, particularly in team games which i play.

anyway, analysis. coh2 teching is really fast for a couple of reasons.

one, vehicles and tech are the only thing that fuel is used for. since there are a limited number of vehicles early game and those that are available tend to be fairly cheap it means that teching is going to happen sooner rather than later and that, for those factions with early vehicles choices, the construction of light vehicles may result in a 1 or 2 minute delay in teching; nothing major.

two, most factions have a small number of tech levels. OKH is 4+1 (5) but generally only builds 3 (+1). the soviets are also 4+1 (5) but also generally build only 3. the difference between OKH and USSR is that OKH branches at the top while USSR branches at the bottom. UKF is basically 2 (+1+0.5+0.5). as a result UKF tends to tech pretty fast. USF and OKW have a similar structure in that they are 3+1 (4) and both have a choice at the bottom of the tree. effectively, they have 2 (+1) tech levels. like the brits, they tech fast.

all of the above tech splitting is done for the sake of "diversity" but the result is an artificial limitation that removes core features from the faction. it's like a car with a list of features (mirrors, power steering, head lights, heating, locking doors) and you're told "pick 3 of 5" based upon your situation and personal preference.

dow2 had linear tech for all factions, with all of the base units available in a given game, but players never purchased each of those units because it didn't make sense to. the system of counters is a lot harder than in coh2, and there are more unit types, and squad loses are much more devastating, so players picked what complimented their play style and/or countered their opponent's. what limited tech not artificial but rather a product of having more choice than buying power in a single game. the tech being linear didn't detract from the overall game and the variety of units meant that a player generally had some kind of counter (with a few notable exceptions).

additionally, power used to tech and buy vehicles, like coh2, but also for upgrades and the more powerful base units. this meant that buying a lot of t1.5 units would delay your t2 timing, leaving you more vulnerable to a vehicle rush, but was worth it if you could keep the enemy delayed as well. another important factor was that tech power costs were very high, making the transition timing an important decision and delaying a unit purchase.

tl;dr: dow2 is better designed because THQ wasn't going backrupt.

the only way to fix the current rapid tech and limited units is by redesigning the tech for all factions and/or adding more units so that there are more units for each timing window, the windows are longer, and there is always a counter available.

is this in regards to all game modes or specific? Above 2v2 timing for vehicles goes out the window as far as pacing goes.

there are multiple reasons why the timing in this game is so uninterrupted compared to say, dow2. personally, i would not only like for more infantry/support weapon/very light vehicle play but also more play with light/medium tanks, particularly in team games which i play.

anyway, analysis. coh2 teching is really fast for a couple of reasons.

one, vehicles and tech are the only thing that fuel is used for. since there are a limited number of vehicles early game and those that are available tend to be fairly cheap it means that teching is going to happen sooner rather than later and that, for those factions with early vehicles choices, the construction of light vehicles may result in a 1 or 2 minute delay in teching; nothing major.

two, most factions have a small number of tech levels. OKH is 4+1 (5) but generally only builds 3 (+1). the soviets are also 4+1 (5) but also generally build only 3. the difference between OKH and USSR is that OKH branches at the top while USSR branches at the bottom. UKF is basically 2 (+1+0.5+0.5). as a result UKF tends to tech pretty fast. USF and OKW have a similar structure in that they are 3+1 (4) and both have a choice at the bottom of the tree. effectively, they have 2 (+1) tech levels. like the brits, they tech fast.

all of the above tech splitting is done for the sake of "diversity" but the result is an artificial limitation that removes core features from the faction. it's like a car with a list of features (mirrors, power steering, head lights, heating, locking doors) and you're told "pick 3 of 5" based upon your situation and personal preference.

dow2 had linear tech for all factions, with all of the base units available in a given game, but players never purchased each of those units because it didn't make sense to. the system of counters is a lot harder than in coh2, and there are more unit types, and squad loses are much more devastating, so players picked what complimented their play style and/or countered their opponent's. what limited tech not artificial but rather a product of having more choice than buying power in a single game. the tech being linear didn't detract from the overall game and the variety of units meant that a player generally had some kind of counter (with a few notable exceptions).

additionally, power used to tech and buy vehicles, like coh2, but also for upgrades and the more powerful base units. this meant that buying a lot of t1.5 units would delay your t2 timing, leaving you more vulnerable to a vehicle rush, but was worth it if you could keep the enemy delayed as well. another important factor was that tech power costs were very high, making the transition timing an important decision and delaying a unit purchase.

tl;dr: dow2 is better designed because THQ wasn't going backrupt.

the only way to fix the current rapid tech and limited units is by redesigning the tech for all factions and/or adding more units so that there are more units for each timing window, the windows are longer, and there is always a counter available.

pls don't use OKH to refer to Ostheer/Wehrmacht.

No sense to it. Just confusing at first.

I would like to see them add a reason to not go for light vehicles. Right now every faction goes for light vehicle rush, it would be good if there was a reason to quick tech tanks, which would still come out later and prolong infantry play.

Except ostheer haha

I would like to see a little delay of like 1-2 minutes of vehicles.
In my opinion the vcoh USF was a great example, 1) 4 rifle bar tech 2) 3 rifle early nade tech 3) M8 rush and it was all viable to some extent. Atm in this meta you know there are no nades coming, Mo early bars but early vehicle, every.time.

Except ostheer and OKW haha

I would like to see a little delay of like 1-2 minutes of vehicles.
In my opinion the vcoh USF was a great example, 1) 4 rifle bar tech 2) 3 rifle early nade tech 3) M8 rush and it was all viable to some extent. Atm in this meta you know there are no nades coming, Mo early bars but early vehicle, every.time.

Correction.

Vcoh USF had a T1 Jeep to hunt snipers and to go non-meta 4RM start, USF could also build T2 first which, in a 1vs1 perspective was suicidal but much more interesting in 2vs2 and above teamplay. Last but not least, you could go T1+T2 as USF to have a strong infantry play but no AT.
Delaying light vehicle play by 1 or 2 minutes is just a way to make Ostheer/OKW early game more powerful than it is. the M20 which is the best light vehicle in game is perfectly balance vs Ostheer/Sniper/grenfaust and OKW/Sturm-rape-pio/raken/vshreck.

The problem is that light vehicles are the only way some factions get some early game variety.
Out of all the factions, only Ostheer has a varied early game with 3 viable types of infantry (pios count because of flamer), an HMG, mortar, and a sniper. They also have easy access to grenades and weapon upgrades without needing to side-tech. If you look at USF, they only have riflemen... Can't clear buildings with them, can't counter snipers with them. HMGS and pak howies come late etc. Lenghtening and enhancing the infantry combat phase of the game would require some massive overhauls.

I would like to see them add a reason to not go for light vehicles. Right now every faction goes for light vehicle rush, it would be good if there was a reason to quick tech tanks, which would still come out later and prolong infantry play.

And why do you think it would be a good idea?

No reason to go for lights does NOT promote infantry focus, it promotes medium rush, because you want to get an edge over opponent at best.

At worse, it promotes strats like volks or maxim spam even more, there is also an economical aspect, where UKF and USF simply can NOT commit more to infantry then they do now as it breaks completely their menpower economy.

I don't think there is anything wrong with game pace right now, pretty much all armies can focus on the infantry more in early game to a point, but making lights less attractive will achieve nothing but med armor rush.

And last but not least, without lights, USF is fucked up, UKF is fucked up, OKW is stripped from at least 2 BOs and soviets that don't spam maxims are so fucked up that its not even funny.

If someone is struggling vs lights, then perhaps it would be a good idea to anticipate and get some AT out.

And why do you think it would be a good idea?

No reason to go for lights does NOT promote infantry focus, it promotes medium rush, because you want to get an edge over opponent at best.

At worse, it promotes strats like volks or maxim spam even more, there is also an economical aspect, where UKF and USF simply can NOT commit more to infantry then they do now as it breaks completely their menpower economy.

I don't think there is anything wrong with game pace right now, pretty much all armies can focus on the infantry more in early game to a point, but making lights less attractive will achieve nothing but med armor rush.

And last but not least, without lights, USF is fucked up, UKF is fucked up, OKW is stripped from at least 2 BOs and soviets that don't spam maxims are so fucked up that its not even funny.

If someone is struggling vs lights, then perhaps it would be a good idea to anticipate and get some AT out.

More side tech would add reasons not to go lights that doesn't encourage faster mediums.

USF could have another Barracks upgrade for 25 fuel(maybe unlocks a buffed volley fire and a new assault fire ability, or something) and OKW could use sideupgrades and even T0 upgrades for economy would be neat. (Defensive tactics upgrade, maybe field craft, things like that.)

Soviets grenade/molo could be folded into one 35 fuel upgrade, and given another upgrade (cheaper con reinforcement for 45 fuel maybe) and Ost/UKF don't need anymore

More side tech would add reasons not to go lights that doesn't encourage faster mediums.

USF could have another Barracks upgrade for 25 fuel(maybe unlocks a buffed volley fire and a new assault fire ability, or something) and OKW could use sideupgrades and even T0 upgrades for economy would be neat. (Defensive tactics upgrade, maybe field craft, things like that.)

Soviets grenade/molo could be folded into one 35 fuel upgrade, and given another upgrade (cheaper con reinforcement for 45 fuel maybe) and Ost/UKF don't need anymore

*looks at brits and USF* mmmm, not really, unless you plan to take away infantries basic rifles and make them side upgrade for fuel.

Even for PE, the ultimate side upgrade faction, light armor rush was still one of the best things you could do.

And why do you think it would be a good idea?

No reason to go for lights does NOT promote infantry focus, it promotes medium rush, because you want to get an edge over opponent at best.

I didn't say no reason to go for lights, I said a reason to go for something other than lights. There are enough assets in the game to support more than one meta strategy.

At worse, it promotes strats like volks or maxim spam even more, there is also an economical aspect, where UKF and USF simply can NOT commit more to infantry then they do now as it breaks completely their menpower economy.

And that is why I said they need to make it more attractive, because currently it is not attractive and there is no reason to not get light vehicles.

I don't think there is anything wrong with game pace right now, pretty much all armies can focus on the infantry more in early game to a point, but making lights less attractive will achieve nothing but med armor rush.

And last but not least, without lights, USF is fucked up, UKF is fucked up, OKW is stripped from at least 2 BOs and soviets that don't spam maxims are so fucked up that its not even funny.

You realize I didn't say they need to take light vehicles out of the game, right? Look at vCoH for Wehr, USF, and PE. There were many infantry heavy meta strats like barred riflemen and getting a bunch of PE infantry upgrades, but there were also meta strats like rushing the m8, the Puma, the armored car.

There is room for more than one meta in this game.

Side upgrades can be additive, they don't have to be core unit features. Light vehicles as WFA are rushed because the factions lack early indirect, snipers, and other stuff. And the only reason PE rushed light armor was because they relied on it for anti garrison, kiting blobs, etc. (they had only Pzgrens and AC as generalist fighting units.)

Here's a good USF idea that will never happen: tie AT gun, light mortar, light HMG to T0 with 40-50 fuel cost, make .50 cal monster MG, replace current AT gun slot with m3 halftrack. (This is pipe dream thinking, but the point is sde research can delay lights and mediums.)

vehicles are rushed because vehicles beat infantry and there's nothing else to spend fuel on except teching. unless the sidegrade offers a MASSIVE advantage over not getting it or it's required to counter a specific strategy, it won't be gotten because, as katitof said, that slows down med tanks.