New Commander: Terror Doctrine

Well, how do you normally counter AT, and AI? That should be the same counters for these units. It's not like they can camouflage, and even if you manage to kill 2/3 men while the last one retreats, it's still 170 manpower to reinforce 2 of them. As for the railway artillery, it gives plenty of time to move out of the way, so the only effected units should be static ones. It's more of a breakthrough ability, that it is artillery. In my opinion, it encourages to not build emplacements close to each other, therefore less sim cities.

Normally, I attack in front using smoke to cut paks and mgs (as for allies, I usually play USF). To counter these guys, there should be also rifles in 1:1 proportion backed up with HMG or Stuart. And this is only to counter Knights with Paks. But later there would be tanks and situation will become silly, because:
Ost Knights > USF Infantry
Ost Tanks >> USF Cardboard

I am always against an superexpensive super units, because they are nearly impossible to balance - they will either suck or punish almost everything (any infantry count as well) for little effort.

Air Superiority was nerfed because it had a great CHANCE to destroy single full HP OKW truck. USF artillery barrage was reworked for almost the same reason. I guess, artillery that is able to destroy several full hp braced emplacements which cost mp and fuel would be nerfed before these two, if it ever existed.

I am always against an superexpensive super units, because they are nearly impossible to balance - they will either suck or punish almost everything (any infantry count as well) for little effort.

I guess, artillery that is able to destroy several full hp braced emplacements which cost mp and fuel would be nerfed before these two, if it ever existed.

Knight's Cross Holders should cost enough (400 MP, 85 MP Reinforce per model), and be limited enough (3 Man Squad) to not be an over-powered one squad army, but will need both AI and AT support to perform in their truly excellent form. That, in my opinion, fits in with how Wehrmacht-Ostheer has the best combined arms tactics in the game.

The red zone (4000 Damage), which is where emplacements are immediately destroyed, is small enough to fit only 1 emplacement, and the yellow zone (500 Damage) would only heavily damage the ones surrounding it, not completely destroying them. Depending on the units that you have on the field, the rest should be able to be repaired and recovered quickly, unless there is a battalion of enemy tanks waiting nearby.

Super units are actually against Wehrmacht design, Tiger tank breaks this rule however

Super units are actually against Wehrmacht design, Tiger tank breaks this rule however

As long as it's not a one-squad-army, it should fit in. If comparing it to units already into the game, I feel like it's a mixture of a grenadier squad, and an obersoldaten squad.

They sound like beefier versions of (spelling) Falimjager. I don't know, I think that giving Ost their own version of heavy cavalry commander might be bad for balance...

But it's a yes from me, you sold me. +2

They sound like beefier versions of (spelling) Falimjager. I don't know, I think that giving Ost their own version of heavy cavalry commander might be bad for balance...

But it's a yes from me, you sold me. +2

I just realized it is the heavy cavalry commander, because the Pershing is as good as the Panzer IV Command Tank except no aura.

I'm going to be experimenting with knight's cross holders in-game via the attribute editor. I'll post back when I'm done, and have some results.

I just realized it is the heavy cavalry commander, because the Pershing is as good as the Panzer IV Command Tank except no aura.

I didn't see updated OP, I thought you had knights cross holders replacing command P4, and tiger tank call in.

I legitimately support your overall concept, I wasn't being sarcastic or smug. This would bring back vCoH nostalgia which I'm for

I didn't see updated OP, I thought you had knights cross holders replacing command P4, and tiger tank call in.

I legitimately support your overall concept, I wasn't being sarcastic or smug. This would bring back vCoH nostalgia which I'm for

If I replaced the command P4, I'd be going against one of the doctrine's purposes.

Knight's Cross Holders should cost enough (400 MP, 85 MP Reinforce per model), and be limited enough (3 Man Squad) to not be an over-powered one squad army, but will need both AI and AT support to perform in their truly excellent form. That, in my opinion, fits in with how Wehrmacht-Ostheer has the best combined arms tactics in the game.

The red zone (4000 Damage), which is where emplacements are immediately destroyed, is small enough to fit only 1 emplacement, and the yellow zone (500 Damage) would only heavily damage the ones surrounding it, not completely destroying them. Depending on the units that you have on the field, the rest should be able to be repaired and recovered quickly, unless there is a battalion of enemy tanks waiting nearby.

Again. It will be either OP or UP. Without any excuses. Superexpensive superunit design was tried already. The reason why they don't exist - is in abusive tactics which rely on heavy use of expensive, but easy to control (due to small number of squads and overall effectiveness) units and abilities.

Again. One-shot building abilities were successively nerfed/reworked relatively soon after their introduction. Because "expensive and unforgiving" design is what lead game to devolution of tactic (see above)

Again. It will be either OP or UP. Without any excuses. Superexpensive superunit design was tried already. The reason why they don't exist - is in abusive tactics which rely on heavy use of expensive, but easy to control (due to small number of squads and overall effectiveness) units and abilities.

Again. One-shot building abilities were successively nerfed/reworked relatively soon after their introduction. Because "expensive and unforgiving" design is what lead game to devolution of tactic (see above)

Ugh, just please, you can't just assume it'll be overpowered until you try it for yourself. Now, please trust me that it won't be overpowered. Unless you want to call obersoldaten and rangers overpowered, then this shouldn't be a problem.

Plenty of time to avoid, plenty of time to prepare. 1 emplacement, or 1 random ambient building lost, but they lost 325 munitions. It will be a trade-off.

Now we can continue repeating this over, and over, and over again if you please.

Well, I just finished testing it with attribute editor. They are really good with support, but suck if you send them in on their own. They're easily wiped while suppressed, mostly because they have 3 men instead of 4. Of coarse I didn't have the models, so I had to live with 3 giant blue boxes walking around the map.

Plenty of time to avoid, plenty of time to prepare. 1 emplacement, or 1 random ambient building lost, but they lost 325 munitions. It will be a trade-off.

Now we can continue repeating this over, and over, and over again if you please.

this is exact description of Air Superiority. And yes,I can assume it is OP for the same reason why AS was OP. Nobody was satisfied with brits trading 325 muni for OKW truck (even when they were suck). Concept of uncounterable one-click denials for any kind of stuff is a dead end for strategy games

Well, I just finished testing it with attribute editor. They are really good with support, but suck if you send them in on their own. They're easily wiped while suppressed, mostly because they have 3 men instead of 4. Of coarse I didn't have the models, so I had to live with 3 giant blue boxes walking around the map.

If you want to give them the sniper model (it's an example just go to squad_loadout, select the epbs that you made. Then you go to that epbs and under animator (I think it's under model info? I forget) you select the model you want

this is exact description of Air Superiority. And yes,I can assume it is OP for the same reason why AS was OP. Nobody was satisfied with brits trading 325 muni for OKW truck (even when they were suck). Concept of uncounterable one-click denials for any kind of stuff is a dead end for strategy games

Air Superiority was Large damage over a large area. New Railway Artillery is Large damage (4000-600 Damage) in one small concentrated area, with light damage (79 Damage) on the outskirts.
_____________________________________________________________________________
In other news, I finally figured out the stats of the Knight's Cross Holders after awhile of experimenting with the attribute editor.

• 3 Man Squad
  
• Squad costs 400 manpower
  
• Model reinforcement cost is 90 manpower
  
• 90 Health Per Model
  
• Armed with STG-44s which deal 6.5 damage per bullet.
  
• Accuracy is 0.55 at long, 0.75 at medium, and 0.85 at close.
  
• Maximum range is 35
  
• Has 4 abilities: Sprint (5 Munitions), Medical Kit (15 Munition; Self Heal; Not the Grenadier medkit; Vet 1 Unlock), Panzerfaust (25 Munitions), and Assault (45 Munitions; Squad breaks suppression, and sprints up to have each model throw a grenade, very similar to 'Grenade Assault')
  
• Has 68% received suppression
  
• Has 68% received accuracy
  
• Vet 1: Unlocks Medical Kit
  
• Vet 2: -12% received accuracy & suppression (0.68*0.88=about 60%)
  
• Vet 3: +12% weapon accuracy (Far: 61.6% Medium: 84% and Close: 95.2%); -50% Ability Costs.
  
  If I missed anything, please tell me.
  
  
  

If you want to give them the sniper model (it's an example just go to squad_loadout, select the epbs that you made. Then you go to that epbs and under animator (I think it's under model info? I forget) you select the model you want

The actual in-game visual model will look like how it is in coh1 with maybe better graphics (because why not). The rest of the model stats will be similar to those listed above this post. Tell me if I missed anything.

Air Superiority was Large damage over a large area. New Railway Artillery is Large damage (4000-600 Damage) in one small concentrated area, with light damage (79 Damage) on the outskirts.
_____________________________________________________________________________
In other news, I finally figured out the stats of the Knight's Cross Holders after awhile of experimenting with the attribute editor.

• 3 Man Squad
  
• Squad costs 400 manpower
  
• Model reinforcement cost is 90 manpower
  
• 90 Health Per Model
  
• Armed with STG-44s which deal 6.5 damage per bullet.
  
• Accuracy is 0.55 at long, 0.75 at medium, and 0.85 at close.
  
• Maximum range is 35
  
• Has 4 abilities: Sprint, Medical Kit (Self Heal; Not the Grenadier medkit; Vet 1 Unlock), Panzerfaust, and Assault (Squad breaks suppression, and sprints up to have each model throw a grenade, very similar to 'Grenade Assault')
  
• Has 68% received suppression
  
• Has 68% received accuracy
  
• Vet 1: Unlocks Medical Kit
  
• Vet 2: -12% received accuracy & suppression (0.68*0.88=about 60%)
  
• Vet 3: +12% weapon accuracy (Far: 61.6% Medium: 84% and Close: 95.2%); -50% Ability Costs.
  
  If I missed anything, please tell me.
  
  
  

AS area wasn't nerfed, actually it's DAMAGE was nerfed. I repeat: Nobody was satisfied with brits trading 325 muni for OKW truck (even when they were suck). Concept of uncounterable one-click denials for any kind of stuff is a dead end for strategy games.

AT snare and medkit on such powerful AI unit is an overkill.

In conclusion, main idea of the doctrine: terminators with best AI dps and AT snare , tiger and nuclear strike. All in one commander. Sounds as balanced as USF with Flamers/M1919/Rangers/Calliope/Pershing

AS area wasn't nerfed, actually it's DAMAGE was nerfed. I repeat: Nobody was satisfied with brits trading 325 muni for OKW truck (even when they were suck). Concept of uncounterable one-click denials for any kind of stuff is a dead end for strategy games.

AT snare and medkit on such powerful AI unit is an overkill.

In conclusion, main idea of the doctrine: terminators with best AI dps and AT snare , tiger and nuclear strike. All in one commander. Sounds as balanced as USF with Flamers/M1919/Rangers/Calliope/Pershing

Look, I understand it is your personal crusade to shut down my thread by repeating what you say 3+ times, but I'm going to have to ask you to stop. Seriously, one more repeat, and I will simply report for spam. But anyways, the panzerfaust is mainly used so that a vehicle cannot chase down a fragile unit like the KCH, and the medkit is the same thing as bringing them to a medical bunker. They still cost munitions like most other abilities. With you considering KCH as "terminators", I question your logic. I've actually tested them out through attribute editor, and found out how fragile they are. With you saying that this commander sounds as balanced as the USF with flamers/ m1919/ rangers/ calliope/ pershing, I start to question your sanity. Any more comments about the railway artillery will be happily accepted in it's separate thread which you can find next to the ability on the main post. Now either be reasonable, or do not come back to this thread.

Thank you, have a nice day.

~Kar

Look, I understand it is your personal crusade to shut down my thread by repeating what you say 3+ times, but I'm going to have to ask you to stop. Seriously, one more repeat, and I will simply report for spam. But anyways, the panzerfaust is mainly used so that a vehicle cannot chase down a fragile unit like the KCH, and the medkit is the same thing as bringing them to a medical bunker. They still cost munitions like most other abilities. With you considering KCH as "terminators", I question your logic. I've actually tested them out through attribute editor, and found out how fragile they are. With you saying that this commander sounds as balanced as the USF with flamers/ m1919/ rangers/ calliope/ pershing, I start to question your sanity. Any more comments about the railway artillery will be happily accepted in it's separate thread which you can find next to the ability on the main post. Now either be reasonable, or do not come back to this thread.

Thank you, have a nice day.

~Kar

My personal crusade is to live in harmony with my brain and soul, so please, don't overestimate meaning of your thread.

My point is: adding units of that kind is a dead end idea. You may made them 100mp and give a lmg to every model, or increase price to 130 mp for 200 hp per model. All these ideas are as crazy as idea to balance any unit with 40+ mp reinforce cost. They are not and never will be balanced. With AT snare and medkit they will become the same knights as I described in my first post. You cannot give a single unit huge dps, survivability, and ability for every life situation by just increasing its price. Because such units will encourage abusive play.

Regarding Artillery, I just have to repeat same words again and again, because you refuse to understand what I am trying to tell you. You just keep answering only parts of my messages, and now, with no arguments left you are trying to blame me,while using words such as "report" and "insanity". Good luck, hope Relics are sane enough to not take your ideas serious

• 3 Man Squad
  
• Squad costs 400 manpower
  
• Model reinforcement cost is 90 manpower
  
• 90 Health Per Model
  
• Armed with STG-44s which deal 6.5 damage per bullet.
  
• Accuracy is 0.55 at long, 0.75 at medium, and 0.85 at close.
  
• Maximum range is 35
  
• Has 4 abilities: Sprint (5 Munitions), Medical Kit (15 Munition; Self Heal; Not the Grenadier medkit; Vet 1 Unlock), Panzerfaust (25 Munitions), and Assault (45 Munitions; Squad breaks suppression, and sprints up to have each model throw a grenade, very similar to 'Grenade Assault')
  
• Has 68% received suppression
  
• Has 68% received accuracy
  
• Vet 1: Unlocks Medical Kit
  
• Vet 2: -12% received accuracy & suppression (0.68*0.88=about 60%)
  
• Vet 3: +12% weapon accuracy (Far: 61.6% Medium: 84% and Close: 95.2%); -50% Ability Costs.
  
  If I missed anything, please tell me.
  
  
  

Is that a 3 man squad, resistant to bullets, immune to mortars, immune to suppression, that can heal itself, designed do overpower infantery, shreck tanks, throw grenades, hooraaah, cost as much as an obersoldaten squad?
Marie-Sue Terminator squad spotted!
I am afraid you designed some kind of acetiger infantery aviable at 7CP with actually no downside.
While i like KCH, i cannot agree on superunits that can deal with anything without support. Even the humble Tiger cannot selfrepair and is not stuffed with multiple multipurpose abilitys. There is basically no point in bulding any other units past CP7 with that loadout.
What i suggest you is to do some of the followings :
-removing thoses abilities, replace them with more specialist ones, like building occupy/stungrenades/inspire warcry(creates synergy)/build special thing/debuff spell...
-adding weaknesses to a certain type of units
-adding downsides, limit to 1, mega popcap, ressources cut, autobreak if a model die, no reinforce allowed...

When comparing to other "terminator" units, the colsest things that comes to my mind are rangers, shocks, obers, and they all serves a particular purpose, have mostly one or two abilitys at max that help them to fulfill their purpose and are soft to vehicles (dont count eventual zook as it hampers their usefullness to be able to soften light vehicles).

I liked the work you puted on railway artillery thought, pretty nice!

Kozo.