Help VS Ostheer

Okay, i'm not a really bad USF player although not that experienced either (rank 700 USF).

I can fight OKW fine, no problems at all, I just rush capt -> stuart/p.howie and i'm set.

But Ostheer is a whole different story... when rushing captain I just lose control points to his MG/sniper control. And if I go LT -> m20 into capt & major, I delay my tech so bad, that he can have 2 panzers by the time I am still saving up for my first Sherman or jackson considering we're on near equal grounds regarding capture points / vps.

I have the feeling I kind of tried everything. It's also not that I can't win vs Ostheer (otherwise I wouldn't be rank 700), but it's my most frustrating matchup while I think OKW is harder as people consider it... overpowered although that's argueable.

Any tips regarding this matchup?

Thanks

Uploading a replay is very helpful so we can see what it is you are doing against them. Plus you are USF your rifles are great and the first build you mentioned "capt-> Stuart/p.howie" is what you should use against the Ostheer. you could even forget about the pak howie and grab an anti tank gun. + make aure you go bazookas.

If you go the LT route you need to make SURE YOU GET YOUR M20 OUT fast!!!! it has a small window of oppurtunity to inflict a high amount of damage and secure more of the map for you. + don't be afraid to use the anti-tank mine the M20 gets *correct me on that if I am wrong* but you need to use it to push MGS off the field and secure those cutoffs.

You could try a very aggressive early game by fielding 4 rifle squads into ambulance into captain and fast tech into Shermans or jacksons. but that requires you to tech into grenades in order to smoke out his HMG'S he will use to counter you. the USF fair generally well against the axis powers. They have a lot of utility and their tier 1 units are extremely powerful I don't think you are abusing the power your rifles have in the early game.

anyone else in the thread can pick apart my suggestions if they want. I do not main USF I play SU and East Germans. I hope the tips help.

Okay, i'm not a really bad USF player although not that experienced either (rank 700 USF).

I can fight OKW fine, no problems at all, I just rush capt -> stuart/p.howie and i'm set.

But Ostheer is a whole different story... when rushing captain I just lose control points to his MG/sniper control. And if I go LT -> m20 into capt & major, I delay my tech so bad, that he can have 2 panzers by the time I am still saving up for my first Sherman or jackson considering we're on near equal grounds regarding capture points / vps.

I have the feeling I kind of tried everything. It's also not that I can't win vs Ostheer (otherwise I wouldn't be rank 700), but it's my most frustrating matchup while I think OKW is harder as people consider it... overpowered although that's argueable.

Any tips regarding this matchup?

Thanks

m10 is good against ostheer, but in 1v1s or 2v2s lt into capt or lt + zooks is good. The big decision is between the m20 and the m16, m20 is good if you had map control, were able to harrass, take, or cut off his fuel, or if he went heavy tier 1. M20 has a smaller window against Ostheer than OKW, which was already small because of the new luches. M20 is also good against the 222 if played well, make sure you place mines in that small window and if you have floating resources and zooks, remove the crew with an RE, give it another zook, now that tank crew counters the 222. m16 counters the 222 so getting it if behind is good. My biggest recommendation is teching zooks, since they are capable against OST early to medium game armor and very valuable since they got buffed. IF you are ahead from their you could tech major, but if not tech capt for another zook squad and an m57 which will be a threat to medium armor, just make sure you field a jackson for possible late game heavies, unless its an elefant, then try not to field too much armor.

Try flanking the MGs by using a rifleman squad or RE as bait, or use a pak howie to wear it down and time an attack right so you can kill it as it packs up to relocate. Getting the MG is the best case scenario, but it can also just help to force it away. Or use smoke if you can spare the fuel/muni.

Also, if you're rushing captain, dont forget about his "on me!" ability. it breaks suppression/pins.

Try flanking the MGs by using a rifleman squad or RE as bait, or use a pak howie to wear it down and time an attack right so you can kill it as it packs up to relocate. Getting the MG is the best case scenario, but it can also just help to force it away. Or use smoke if you can spare the fuel/muni.

Also, if you're rushing captain, dont forget about his "on me!" ability. it breaks suppression/pins.

Tbh I always forget about this ability, i'll try use that aswell.
What is in general better in USF vs Ost? Like you also mentioned, just rushing capt, but does this mean LT is never really used anymore in the current meta against both Ost and OKW?

Pretty much just repeating the same stuff that was said in 3 other threads on first 2 pages on the USF forum but anyway.If you go LT you get basically glofiried extra rifle squad and some anti infantry sauce on top of it, which is kinda pointless because neither axis faction, especially ost, about never wins games by delaying the infantry phase.Going LT leaves you vulnerable to scout cars and other mechanized mid games menaces whereas with cpt you get "free" AT squad and access to stuart and the atg to counter their mecha crap.

Only thing LT has going is the m20 rush and even then you need to be like..super gosy with the van if you want to make most of it.

Just approach his MG positions from at least 2 different sides and there's nothing he can do really since your rifles win his grenadiers at medium/close ranges. If he has a sniper, he usually has one as his first unit so you can just rush it with everything you got - he won't be having MGs until few minutes into the game so you can win the very first engagements very easily by being really aggressive.

Also very easy to outcap the ostheer player since ostheer usually has to focus on a very narrow area of the map and 1 VP during early game to hold his ground. Try play a few games as ostheer and see what the USF opponent does, watch the replays USF > ostheer in 1v1 imo!

Spam rifles and snow ball into unstoppable force of freeeeedom

Tbh I always forget about this ability, i'll try use that aswell.
What is in general better in USF vs Ost? Like you also mentioned, just rushing capt, but does this mean LT is never really used anymore in the current meta against both Ost and OKW?

Riflemen are awesome vs grens in general. just get them close so they can rip them apart with m1 garands' superior fire rate. I literally never (and i do mean NEVER) tech leutenant. In pro games, its viable because both players like to scale evenly, but in regular matchmaking i find LT useless. The reason, at least for me, is that it means you have no AT if your opponent rushes armor. You can always get the bazooka upgrade, but
1. bazookas are still pretty bad
2. you are then paying more fuel and MP into tech than you would have going for captain.

LT just delays teching and doesn't seem worth it for the crappy .50 cals and early game vehicles. It pushed the already large USF early-game advantage, but it leaves you even more vulnerable in the late game, where USF is already weak. Captain early on is a pretty good unit if you either keep him hidden in case of 222 rush or use him to flank and do decent cqc damage with the one thompson member.

My build order goes rifle, rifle, rifle, (additional rifle if you dont have good fuel income to get CPT), captain, ambulance, pak howie, AT gun (if needed). Then it varies depending on which commander I choose.

things get really fun when your ostheer opponent decides to camp two crucial houses and murder you with his single sniper, and massacre you with double sniper shortly afterwards while you desperately try to win any engagements. but it wont work because of snipers. when you try to chase them with a m20 a gren waits for you.

it really can get tiresome

things get really fun when your ostheer opponent decides to camp two crucial houses and murder you with his single sniper, and massacre you with double sniper shortly afterwards while you desperately try to win any engagements. but it wont work because of snipers. when you try to chase them with a m20 a gren waits for you.

it really can get tiresome

And that really sucks that the only non-doc counter snipe for USF is teching LT for the M20. More Axis imbal IMO.

lol, axis imbalance. Poor USF player have to tech LT

if you have problems with sniper&mg just tech LT and go m20 or even halftrack (Which can deal more easily from range alot of damage + suppress running grens at you)

ps. And always you have that smoke grenade choice against many hard choke points to push through.