There is no point playing Ostheer 1v1 anymore

There's satisfaction in the Ostheer win but no, right now at high levels the game is completely out of balance. There's no ladder atm so...w/e. I personally don't get the point of continuing to spam the soviets and use the same mind numbing stuff over and over again to get wins when there isn't even anything to show yourself off, but to each their own.

However, people are getting wins against good players simply because of overpowered su85's and what not. It's frustrating and many times I've found myself not wanting to play the game. The morale of the community is pretty low, and without chat or lobbies there is no place for it to grow atm unfortunately. I remember when COH originally came out...it was insatiably addicting and a very popular community formed around it...I don't foresee that happening right at this moment.

It's a shame really

There's satisfaction in the Ostheer win but no, right now at high levels the game is completely out of balance. There's no ladder atm so...w/e. I personally don't get the point of continuing to spam the soviets and use the same mind numbing stuff over and over again to get wins when there isn't even anything to show yourself off, but to each their own.

However, people are getting wins against good players simply because of overpowered su85's and what not. It's frustrating and many times I've found myself not wanting to play the game. The morale of the community is pretty low, and without chat or lobbies there is no place for it to grow atm unfortunately. I remember when COH originally came out...it was insatiably addicting and a very popular community formed around it...I don't foresee that happening right at this moment.

It's a shame really

That is basically where I am right now. At this point I've uninstalled CoH2 simply because the fun/frustration ratio is so bad no matter who I am playing as. I'll reinstall at some point to take another look, but this is disappointing beyond words compared to CoH1.

The same glaring mistakes in CoH1 were just ported over here and amplified. After reading Quinn Duffy's response about why Button is still included in this game, I don't have a lot of hope in the leadership. That's not a slight against Quinn or relic per se, they're taking the game in a direction they think is good - I just don't agree at all. There are so many "magic" abilities, so many "this thing requires a hard counter", it just feels like OF from CoH1 on the eastern front.

A lot of this salvageable, but man.

If the person who made this Thread is a PRO, then i agree with him, seing the last tournament.
However i for myself playing against normal oponents cant say, that this is true. I get beaten often as Soviet and when i play as German....and i am very bad as German as i cant keep my troops i often win too. There are new strategies found every day. The game is out not for 1 year but a very short time. Tomorow i am sure someone will find a very nice german strategy, so we can copy + paste the whinethreads but replace soviet with german and maxim to hmg. What i am basicaly saying is, that i believe every strategy has a counter. And there will be op strategys every now and then. If a person is not in the Pro scene, there is no worry about being beaten all the time.

and to the su85....i dont think it is op as it can shoot only into the front and every german tank except stug easily destroys it, or can evade with smoke. The key conter to a su85 is flanking. thats it.
The both texts are just a view from a medium player, so they will not apply to high skilled people i guess...

If the person who made this Thread is a PRO, then i agree with him, seing the last tournament.
However i for myself playing against normal oponents cant say, that this is true. I get beaten often as Soviet and when i play as German....and i am very bad as German as i cant keep my troops i often win too. There are new strategies found every day. The game is out not for 1 year but a very short time. Tomorow i am sure someone will find a very nice german strategy, so we can copy + paste the whinethreads but replace soviet with german and maxim to hmg. What i am basicaly saying is, that i believe every strategy has a counter. And there will be op strategys every now and then. If a person is not in the Pro scene, there is no worry about being beaten all the time.

I am no pro in CoH2, my number of games played in CoH2 is less than 100
but I would say I was a quite decent player in CoH1, of course not now anymore

I am no pro in CoH2, my number of games played in CoH2 is less than 100
but I would say I was a quite decent player in CoH1, of course not now anymore

Then you have more expirience than me, i played only some singleplayer missions in coh1 XD

A half-decent Ostheer meta is starting to crawl out of the primordial ooze of early CoH2.

It is, quite simply (for mortals) grenspam, halfie flamer breakthrough unit, a couple of MGs and a quick PzIV.

Or a variation thereof.

OTOH Sovs have a bucketload of tactical approaches.

Played a dude the other day who was using German sniper (only one) to great effect.

Lastly, the maps really don't help. Where are the decent 1 v 1 maps?

That is basically where I am right now. At this point I've uninstalled CoH2 simply because the fun/frustration ratio is so bad no matter who I am playing as. I'll reinstall at some point to take another look, but this is disappointing beyond words compared to CoH1.

The same glaring mistakes in CoH1 were just ported over here and amplified. After reading Quinn Duffy's response about why Button is still included in this game, I don't have a lot of hope in the leadership. That's not a slight against Quinn or relic per se, they're taking the game in a direction they think is good - I just don't agree at all. There are so many "magic" abilities, so many "this thing requires a hard counter", it just feels like OF from CoH1 on the eastern front.

A lot of this salvageable, but man.

I agree, sadly. There are too many abilities that are absoultely not necessary. Button, those anti-tank nades that you can't really dodge, ramming and w/e. The stun the vehicle crew thingy. I mean, there is absoultely zero requirement for it. If we compare this to CoH1 (the original WM vs US), you will see that the only abilities that are equal to those in CoH2 are stickies (which can be dodged quite well) and mines (hurr durr, germans don't have normal mines..). And you know what? vCoH was the reason why this game was so successful, not Opposing Fronts..

If I had anything to say, I would remove the button ability, this vehicle crew stun, and more chances to dodge anti-tank nades (just like stickies in CoH1). I am ok with ramming, because there is a trade-off, which at least makes it a non no-brainer ability. Give German normal mines, and simply watch how the game will be much more enjoyable.

Also, I am ok with tanks that have longer range than other tanks. But why does this tank has to get an ability to enhance its vision range?! That is again one of those ability that are a complete no-brainer. It should at least take some skill to scout for your long range tanks..

If the person who made this Thread is a PRO, then i agree with him, seing the last tournament.
However i for myself playing against normal oponents cant say, that this is true. I get beaten often as Soviet and when i play as German....and i am very bad as German as i cant keep my troops i often win too. There are new strategies found every day. The game is out not for 1 year but a very short time. Tomorow i am sure someone will find a very nice german strategy, so we can copy + paste the whinethreads but replace soviet with german and maxim to hmg. What i am basicaly saying is, that i believe every strategy has a counter. And there will be op strategys every now and then. If a person is not in the Pro scene, there is no worry about being beaten all the time.

I don't actually care about balance atm, as it will change quite a lot, atm. You are supposed to find possible counters to the "op" things in this game. The thing that annoys me is the fact that there are things in the game that take away most of the fun. I am mainly talking about hard counters, that should not be in this game. Things that I mentioned above.

Also, maps are really important to balance. As long as there are not more maps, balance will be very hard to achieve, as the balancing of the factions depends heavily on maps.

I don't actually care about balance atm, as it will change quite a lot, atm. You are supposed to find possible counters to the "op" things in this game. The thing that annoys me is the fact that there are things in the game that take away most of the fun. I am mainly talking about hard counters, that should not be in this game. Things that I mentioned above.

Also, maps are really important to balance. As long as there are not more maps, balance will be very hard to achieve, as the balancing of the factions depends heavily on maps.

This is really the biggest thing that people seem to have trouble accepting about CoH 2. In a lot of ways, it's not as fun as CoH, not because it's unbalanced (who cares if it is or isn't) but because stuff like button and clown cars are what the game is about. It's not like this makes it a terrible RTS, but it does make it very different from the original CoH (although not so different from OF + ToV), and a lot of people really liked the original CoH (and didn't like OF + ToV). And the maps are mostly terrible.

Only they

make the fucking oowah be an upgrade,
remove the goddamn clown car gangster driveby,
giving men real guns instead of wargame BB plastic guns,
balance up support team crew members,
balance up Sdkwf 221 scout cars, T70s and T-34s,
giving Ostheer global upgrades instead of muni, muni and muni,
remove garrison god mode,
making infantry movement be more sensitive and slightly faster,
give Ostheer 30 muni mines,
giving the mapmaking sofeware out and set up map contest,

then we have a game can give us more fun and a big step forward than CoH1

can somebody explain why button actually damages the game, or quality of play? I'm not following why, sans balance issues that can be fixed if they exist, the inclusion of this ability is actually harmful to the game. What it does is give you reason to prioritize different targets during combat, depending on the biggest threat at the moment, which may just be the squad that can or is buttoning.

If its a matter of taste, you just plain don't like it, that's not an overly compelling argument in my opinion. From my perspective at the moment, its an additional dynamic that has to be taken into consideration. What are the true cons?

Same for scout car play. If the issue isn't balance, then what is it? I'd rather face different strategies when I'm playing ostheer then always see the same couple things, and while scout car spam is tough to deal with, I like that there is variety to the game. Maybe one of the Pros can do a better job than i've seen in the past, explaining how more ways to play hurts the game, just because some of those ways to play don't reflect "good play," whatever that is.

Because a one click ability giving a situation that the defender can't micro away to save his unit, that's bad and retarded seriously intelligent downgraded. Correct me if smoke can cancel out the alien tech tractor beam button.

Same logic as forcefield in SC2, they make gate unit so shitty so they need a stupid forcefield to balance it out. While SC2 in its beta stage, people roared to this bullshit ability. But since Forcefield need some skills to be effective, I still think it's ok.

But buttom is not, you just select Guards, or Bren Tommies before, one click, then the German vehicle is useless and sitting duck for a while. Seriously, WTF?

Speaking of Clown Cars, currently they are too cheap for what they can be done. Nevertheless, even they balance up the cost, this unit is still retarded. You just move a unit around, and stuff start dying. Even you kill the Clown Cars, its passengers can retreat and fight you another day. I don't mind clown cars if clown cars exploded and burn with the squad inside, like Generals RocketVee

P.S. Correct for the guy below who don't like the term R E T A * D * D

Porygon I do wish you would cool it with calling everything "retarded" and all of the WTF's it makes you seem like a belligerent hobo.

Just make button reduce sight to 0 and disable main gun but retain maneuverability and its fine.

Just make button reduce sight to 0 and disable main gun but retain maneuverability and its fine.

Then it is not fine, it is just useless. If it is free, it may be fine

Porygon really stop posting on forums and start learning how to play... because germans arent weak and arent underpowered... you can always change sides... or leave this game if its too hard for you.
Because always there will be player that will beat you because you dont have guts to fight you can only cry on forums.

Porygon really stop posting on forums and start learning how to play... because germans arent weak and arent underpowered... you can always change sides... or leave this game if its too hard for you.
Because always there will be player that will beat you because you dont have guts to fight only cry on forums.

I DO KNOW HOW To PLAY, SmartAss

What I am doing is voicing out to Relic, I don't enjoy the current metagame full of bad designed units, just like the Brits

if it half as good as your complaining your probably quite a good player

But seriously Porygon you are exaggerating on an awful lot of points.

can somebody explain why button actually damages the game, or quality of play? I'm not following why, sans balance issues that can be fixed if they exist, the inclusion of this ability is actually harmful to the game. What it does is give you reason to prioritize different targets during combat, depending on the biggest threat at the moment, which may just be the squad that can or is buttoning.

If its a matter of taste, you just plain don't like it, that's not an overly compelling argument in my opinion. From my perspective at the moment, its an additional dynamic that has to be taken into consideration. What are the true cons?

Same for scout car play. If the issue isn't balance, then what is it? I'd rather face different strategies when I'm playing ostheer then always see the same couple things, and while scout car spam is tough to deal with, I like that there is variety to the game. Maybe one of the Pros can do a better job than i've seen in the past, explaining how more ways to play hurts the game, just because some of those ways to play don't reflect "good play," whatever that is.

The main problem about it is that it does not have any counter play. You can do it without any risks.

In vCoH, every thing you did involved risks. And everything that does not really involve risks (namingly stickies, fausts and nades) had an effective counterplay (dodging/kiting). On top of that, these abilities did not even render a vehicle (worst case a panther/tiger) useless and unable to move, but simply slowed down the unit or just did damage.

This drastically changed with Opposing Fronts, where abilities like treadbreaker, button and stuff came into play. These things do not take any skill to use, are a hard counter to things like vehicles and cannot even be counter by good micro micro (ok, you can stay out of range, but let us be honest, you cannot react to things before you actually see them, meaning that you cannot retreat your vehicle fast enough, once you see the enemy unit that can use this ability).

Now, these abilities can also be found here, again. Button, vehicle crew stun. These things don't have a counterplay, and render a vehicle useless for a period of time. On top of that they don't involve any risk using them. You click on the ability and its done. It takes away the dynamic of the game, as you just have to click buttons to win engagements. Micro? Please, you don't need micro when you have long range tanks that destroy a tank before your crew is actually able to drive its tank again.

Quinns statement that the button ability would promote combined arms is pretty much non-sense, imo. You don't promote things like combined arms by having abilities on units. You promote combined arms by giving units different strengths. Now, a units strength should not come from its abilities. A unit should be useful without their abilities. (again, look at vCoH - not a single unit there was useful for its abilities, but for its strength in fighting infantry/tanks/buildings or just being able to tank a lot of damage.

To give an example. Conscripts are like rifles - versatile and your core unit. Shocks are just a strong infantry unit that is good against infantry only. Guards are a unit that is supposed to combine decent anti infantry and decent anti tank. The thing is, this is mostly achieved by the fact that they have the button ability. Their anti tank rifles are not really the best of anti-tank weapons. Compare that to CoH1, we had rifles, rangers, which were useful against infatnry and light vehicles and airbornes, that were only useful against tanks and to some extend light vehicles. Why? Because they had different weapons that made them strong against different targets. And you know what? It worked out very well and made the game dynamic.

Scout car play is a matter of balance on the one hand and the no risks involved on the other hand. But this can easily be improved by changing the price and making the units inside take damage from small arms and more damage when the vehicle gets destroyed.

I'm playing both as Soviets and Germans at the moment. Enjoying both sides. I think I've been losing with Soviets more than with Germans which brings me to the conclusion - Germans are OP. So Relic - you should listen to me, very very well known player, and nerf the shit out of axis. I want to enjoy the game so plz "balance" it the way I see it. thx gg.