Sturmpios redesign .

the only issue i have with spios is that, like IS, they're so much better than what they'll be facing it's pretty much an automatic win. it's not usually the end of the world but it does let them grab important points very easily.

agree

the only issue i have with spios is that, like IS, they're so much better than what they'll be facing it's pretty much an automatic win. it's not usually the end of the world but it does let them grab important points very easily.

I'm in this camp as well. It takes two squads to reliably take down one SP squad. 1:1 match ups is win for SP vs RE or a coin toss with a rifle (distance and time until SP gets close for max DPS). And as SP vet up, they don't need LMG muni-cost packages like other squads do in order to be better as they vet, the SP just become rape machines. It's the only T0 unit that can rape higher tiers without paying for any upgrades.

the only issue i have with spios is that, like IS, they're so much better than what they'll be facing it's pretty much an automatic win. it's not usually the end of the world but it does let them grab important points very easily.

They used to pay for the privilege though. They were like 420mp when WFA came out.

They used to pay for the privilege though. They were like 420mp when WFA came out.

O.o They were 320 or 340 MP (I think it might have went down to 320 after their DPS was nerfed and they were given a received accuracy bonus) on release. Definitely never broke 400.

O.o They were 320 or 340 MP (I think it might have went down to 320 after their DPS was nerfed and they were given a received accuracy bonus) on release. Definitely never broke 400.

They were 320mp recently but I swear when they came out they were 400 ish. I could be crazy I guess.

They used to pay for the privilege though. They were like 420mp when WFA came out.

yeah but it's still an auto win on the first engagement for IS/spios against RET/CE/pios and that is what i don't like. there's no contest there because IS/spios cost so much more than the other starting units. i know that they (brits at least, not sure where OKW stand at the moment with starting MP) pay for it by having it deducted from the starting mp but it still makes a difference on that first engagement. that first engagement isn't as crucial in 1v1 as it is in team games but in team games it can basically decide the game in the first 30 seconds, literally the first order given.

tl;dr: there's an inherent imbalance with some factions getting a sub 200mp unit as a starter and other getting a ~~300 mp unit to start.

yeah but it's still an auto win on the first engagement for IS/spios against RET/CE/pios and that is what i don't like. there's no contest there because IS/spios cost so much more than the other starting units. i know that they (brits at least, not sure where OKW stand at the moment with starting MP) pay for it by having it deducted from the starting mp but it still makes a difference on that first engagement. that first engagement isn't as crucial in 1v1 as it is in team games but in team games it can basically decide the game in the first 30 seconds, literally the first order given.

tl;dr: there's an inherent imbalance with some factions getting a sub 200mp unit as a starter and other getting a ~~300 mp unit to start.

The thing about sturms/IS is that they are very positional units. Tommies who aren't in cover at the right moment will get chewed up by pioneers who manage to close the distance before the tommies can get in position. Spios caught at range will take serious losses closing the distance and if there's any negative cover between you and them they will just lose.

Pioneers are seriously good against UKF early game if you engage properly. Sniper + pioneer buddy makes it really tough for individual IS to accomplish much.

I do like that fighting these units has a bit of nuance, personally. I think tommy reinforce should really go back up though.

The thing about sturms/IS is that they are very positional units. Tommies who aren't in cover at the right moment will get chewed up by pioneers who manage to close the distance before the tommies can get in position. Spios caught at range will take serious losses closing the distance and if there's any negative cover between you and them they will just lose.

Pioneers are seriously good against UKF early game if you engage properly. Sniper + pioneer buddy makes it really tough for individual IS to accomplish much.

I do like that fighting these units has a bit of nuance, personally. I think tommy reinforce should really go back up though.

you're right, and that basically comes down to player attention and micro but spios/IS will still beat RET/CE/pio the vast majority of the time and will win hard if the victory conditions favour them. given that teams are rush the important building maneuvering with has almost nothing to do with the first 30 seconds. after that it opens up but by that point RETs/CEs/pios are preforming some sort of utility or indirect fighting role (rifle nades/flamers, mines, demos/sight). an HMG and a pio is also at a pretty big disadvantage against 2 IS or an IS and a vickers and will flat out win if they get the building first. additionally, USSR/OKH is at an even further disadvantage if they decide to build t1 as that's longer their unit is off the field.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that i don't have any design issues with these units after the initial rush because the unit counts get closer to equal and these units can do other things but there is a tremendous imbalance for that initial rush (which has little to no place in 1v1s but a huge effect in team games) and it's a design imbalance.

The first free Spios are the real problem.

True. Their range definitions or burst rate needs to change. It is utterly broken the way it is.

I know I'm going to catch hate for this but in a little private mod I made I solved the OKW infantry dilemma:

T0:

Spios with the Ober Kar98 and shrek upgrade

Current Kubel

Flaktrack

T1:

Leig

Raktenwerfer

Obers with G41 and 90 muni mg34

T2:

Luchs

Puma

"Assault" volks with Spio mp44s, tactical assault, and snare

T3:

Walking Stuka

Anti-infantry command P4

Panther

JP4

I know I'm going to catch hate for this but in a little private mod I made I solved the OKW infantry dilemma:

T0:

Spios with the Ober Kar98 and shrek upgrade

Current Kubel

Flaktrack

T1:

Leig

Raktenwerfer

Obers with G41 and 90 muni mg34

T2:

Luchs

Puma

"Assault" volks with Spio mp44s, tactical assault, and snare

T3:

Walking Stuka

Anti-infantry command P4

Panther

JP4

So in your mod Spam Spios cause they have great IA at all range ( obers kark 98 ) then Shrek upgrade for AT, and can Repair, what did you solve actually ?

The first free Spios are the real problem.

Except they are not free.. the starter resource base is decreased with the price of the first unit for every faction.

Problem with the starting Spio is the Kubel being incredibly cheap, capping faster than anything else, dealing reliable damage and being well armored for the first engagement.

So you can have 1 Spio rushing an house/cutoff and basically standing there uncontested for 2 minutes, 1 Kubel backcapping for a ridiculous cheap price and your first volks squad coming to cover your Spio in time.

@Rice, OKW start with more resources than Brit/Sov/USF.

So in your mod Spam Spios cause they have great IA at all range ( obers kark 98 ) then Shrek upgrade for AT, and can Repair, what did you solve actually ?

They are frail and if you don't use them in cover you bleed. They are by no means anymore OP than current spios with Shrek would be, only their damage profile promotes long range attacks.

Problem with the starting Spio is the Kubel being incredibly cheap, capping faster than anything else, dealing reliable damage and being well armored for the first engagement.

So you can have 1 Spio rushing an house/cutoff and basically standing there uncontested for 2 minutes, 1 Kubel backcapping for a ridiculous cheap price and your first volks squad coming to cover your Spio in time.

@Rice, OKW start with more resources than Brit/Sov/USF.

This is what I see pretty much every 2v2 either the starting IS or Spio run to a cut off point building and set up a tent. Aggravated by T0 vickers and MG42.

You and team can encircle and swarm over it but at the cost of against the OKW a large portion of map control to the kubel capping power.