OKW Base Defence/Flak Truck in relation to Air units
22 Jan 2016, 22:15 PM
#21
Posts: 230
Permanently Banned300 mp 135 fuel. Is that supposed to be cheap? Talk about removing USF free squads, and then we can talk about adding in okw side tech.
22 Jan 2016, 22:15 PM
#22
Posts: 468
can someone remind me what OST's T4 cost to upgrade and build the building is? I think SOV is 240 MP and 120 fuel? isn't Schwerer 200 MP and 120 fuel? I want a free AA gun on my SOV T4 HQ that i can place anywhere on the map...
USF is 240/120 and you get a major. UKF T3 is... 115 fuel? don't remember MP cost
USF is 240/120 and you get a major. UKF T3 is... 115 fuel? don't remember MP cost
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22 Jan 2016, 22:19 PM
#23
Posts: 230
Permanently Banned
can someone remind me what OST's T4 cost to upgrade and build the building is? I think SOV is 240 MP and 120 fuel? isn't Schwerer 200 MP and 120 fuel? I want a free AA gun on my SOV T4 HQ that i can place anywhere on the map...
USF is 240/120 and you get a major. UKF T3 is... 115 fuel? don't remember MP cost
300 mp 135 fuel for schwerer
Ost is like 360 mp 110fuel? Idk ost fuel price for t4
22 Jan 2016, 22:24 PM
#24
Posts: 928
Its not as if the Schwerer doesn't already have utility. It already has very decent area denial as it stands and that makes it worth the cost already (+ Teching as well)
What it doesn't need is the AA ability where ppl get rewarded just for teching when AAA with every other faction is a conscious decision.
What it doesn't need is the AA ability where ppl get rewarded just for teching when AAA with every other faction is a conscious decision.
Had fun doing this earlier
22 Jan 2016, 23:26 PM
#25
Posts: 680
How exactly are you meant to kill these things?
Assuming he has Paks and shrecked infantry defending I can't get close to them. Attack ground with a mortar for 5+ minutes doesn't even seem to scratch the paint, none of the call ins seem to destroy it and even an armoured rush seems to need extravagant force ( 2 Cromwells certainly isn't enough, it destroys AECs in a heartbeat, coordinated artilley doesn't seem to target it and the idea of getting an IS within 20 yards to use the base howis is fantasy land, not that it would hit them anyway).
Pushing ATs up that far is a good way to lose them... Do the Brits have anything that can take them out?
Assuming he has Paks and shrecked infantry defending I can't get close to them. Attack ground with a mortar for 5+ minutes doesn't even seem to scratch the paint, none of the call ins seem to destroy it and even an armoured rush seems to need extravagant force ( 2 Cromwells certainly isn't enough, it destroys AECs in a heartbeat, coordinated artilley doesn't seem to target it and the idea of getting an IS within 20 yards to use the base howis is fantasy land, not that it would hit them anyway).
Pushing ATs up that far is a good way to lose them... Do the Brits have anything that can take them out?
23 Jan 2016, 00:31 AM
#26
Posts: 2742
Schwerer doesn't have brace. Arti it's face off. Sturms are way to valuable to risk repairing under fire.
Most artillery barrages do a pretty significant amount of damage to any of the OKW trucks, so following it up with, or along with, an armored push or ATG creep usually does the trick nicely. Plus the Arti usually clears away most of the defending units for that assault.
Most artillery barrages do a pretty significant amount of damage to any of the OKW trucks, so following it up with, or along with, an armored push or ATG creep usually does the trick nicely. Plus the Arti usually clears away most of the defending units for that assault.
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23 Jan 2016, 00:58 AM
#27
Posts: 175
300 mp 135 fuel. Is that supposed to be cheap? Talk about removing USF free squads, and then we can talk about adding in okw side tech.
OKW has comparable fuel tech costs, but way cheaper mp tech costs than some other factions.
These perks were needed with the income penalty to keep okw on the field, now they are not justified without a cost.
Make a thread for USF tech squads. Two wrongs doesn't make a right.
Schwerer doesn't have brace. Arti it's face off. Sturms are way to valuable to risk repairing under fire.
Most artillery barrages do a pretty significant amount of damage to any of the OKW trucks, so following it up with, or along with, an armored push or ATG creep usually does the trick nicely. Plus the Arti usually clears away most of the defending units for that assault.
It'c counterable, sure (even without arty in some cases). But to force your opponent to tech arty to counter a gun slapped on a tech building, which isn't even needed anymore, is weird.
23 Jan 2016, 01:01 AM
#28
Posts: 230
Permanently Banned
OKW has comparable fuel tech costs, but way cheaper mp tech costs than some other factions.
These perks were needed with the income penalty to keep okw on the field, now they are not justified without a cost.
Make a thread for USF tech squads. Two wrongs doesn't make a right.
Kinda why they added 100 mp to every truck?
23 Jan 2016, 01:07 AM
#29
Posts: 175
Kinda why they added 100 mp to every truck?
Still cheaper, truck costs included of course.
23 Jan 2016, 02:38 AM
#30
Posts: 680
"Schwerer doesn't have brace. Arti it's face off. Sturms are way to valuable to risk repairing under fire."
What arty?
As I say mortars don't scratch the paint even when you build one purely to bombard it, no way to get an IS close enough to hope for several lucky hits from base arty. If you haven't picked a commander with some sort of offmap ( even so artillery cover doesn't seem to target it, even concentrated arty doesn't kill it) - I don't know maybe air supremacy does something, though seem to remember seeing a replay where 2 strikes were needed ( 500 muni?)..
By the time it comes out you've already picked doctrine, most of them have diddly squat that helps with this behemoth. That leaves running Cromwells into a pak or shreck line, even unsupported it will happily relieve you of a Cromwell or two.
I doubt the Brit emplacements would even need brace if they had 2000 HP.
What arty?
As I say mortars don't scratch the paint even when you build one purely to bombard it, no way to get an IS close enough to hope for several lucky hits from base arty. If you haven't picked a commander with some sort of offmap ( even so artillery cover doesn't seem to target it, even concentrated arty doesn't kill it) - I don't know maybe air supremacy does something, though seem to remember seeing a replay where 2 strikes were needed ( 500 muni?)..
By the time it comes out you've already picked doctrine, most of them have diddly squat that helps with this behemoth. That leaves running Cromwells into a pak or shreck line, even unsupported it will happily relieve you of a Cromwell or two.
I doubt the Brit emplacements would even need brace if they had 2000 HP.
23 Jan 2016, 04:04 AM
#31
Posts: 154
You can say Schwerer is too cheap, but it's not free. It has a cost.
23 Jan 2016, 04:26 AM
#32
Posts: 680
Other than it having 1920HP what are the stats for it?
Does anything else in the game have that much health?
Does anything else in the game have that much health?
23 Jan 2016, 09:18 AM
#33
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
You can say Schwerer is too cheap, but it's not free. It has a cost.
You miss the point.
Schwerer is not free. Flak gun is free.
Imagine that once you get T4 as SU, you receive Quad or once you get Major, you receve AA HT which you can set down somewhere on the map.
Wouldn't they be free?
23 Jan 2016, 19:45 PM
#34
Posts: 154
No. I would say it's a better deal. Air you breath is free. Someone giving you an extra sandwich from their lunch is free. What others are suggesting is just market-speak. Argue the price is wrong or the deal is too good, but it isn't free.
23 Jan 2016, 22:26 PM
#35
Posts: 928
I'd say the area denial the Schwerer gets should come with the Schwerer. I'm perfectly fine with that
But the AAA is free and shouldn't come with the Schwerer. If you need AA, build an AA HT.
But the AAA is free and shouldn't come with the Schwerer. If you need AA, build an AA HT.
Had fun doing this earlier
23 Jan 2016, 22:40 PM
#36
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
You miss the point.
Schwerer is not free. Flak gun is free.
Imagine that once you get T4 as SU, you receive Quad or once you get Major, you receve AA HT which you can set down somewhere on the map.
Wouldn't they be free?
Also don't forget it costs 0 pop cap.
To those asking the chance to shoot down a plane is per shot. Therefore a 0.5% chance to shoot down a plane is small, but we have tested it on this forum, in many modes that gives you a better than even chance of knocking down an Allied supply plane just by selecting OKW.
The defense that OKW deserves free unlocks because USF holds no water because USF is only one faction, and three other factions in the game get nothing for unlocks. Two of them have to spend time with their own engineer units building structures. If USF unlocks are unfair, another thread, they need to be removed.
OKW having AAA is a hold over from low income status, debate it all you want, but I feel confident in saying: "Mark my words serious changes to OKW functionality are coming, and one of them is a chance to the way the Schwer operates."
23 Jan 2016, 23:49 PM
#37
Posts: 680
Might be interesting to give all factions something similar to the Schwerer for their T4 ( Hammer or Anvil for the Brits).
I'd quite like a 2000 HP bofors / Forward retreat point to lock down a sector, especially if I'd unlocked AEC instead earlier. Might even lead to more interesting battles depending upon relative positioning rather than the more common beaten zones that re-occur on maps.
I'd quite like a 2000 HP bofors / Forward retreat point to lock down a sector, especially if I'd unlocked AEC instead earlier. Might even lead to more interesting battles depending upon relative positioning rather than the more common beaten zones that re-occur on maps.
24 Jan 2016, 01:11 AM
#38
Posts: 928
Might be interesting to give all factions something similar to the Schwerer for their T4 ( Hammer or Anvil for the Brits).
I'd quite like a 2000 HP bofors / Forward retreat point to lock down a sector, especially if I'd unlocked AEC instead earlier. Might even lead to more interesting battles depending upon relative positioning rather than the more common beaten zones that re-occur on maps.
I honestly think area denial for all factions esp in heavy team games (4v4) is going to lead to more clusterfuck.
The big negative to shoving the Schwerer in the middle of the map is losing it and losing access to Obers, Jp 4s, Panthers and P4s. This is what balances out the Area denial that the Schwerer gives.
Such things won't exist with this proposal.
Had fun doing this earlier
25 Jan 2016, 03:55 AM
#39
Posts: 2742
It'c counterable, sure (even without arty in some cases). But to force your opponent to tech arty to counter a gun slapped on a tech building, which isn't even needed anymore, is weird.
I don't disagree. Emplacements in general force the opposing player's hand which can be particularly frustrating.
But if you treat it like a Bofors without Brace or Indirect fire that can be insanely crippling to your opponent when destroyed. Smart OKW players will use it to cover their other tier buildings, not essential combat zones. But it's set up in a forward enough position that it can be hit with indirect fire, it is almost always worth committing the resources towards destroying it.
The same can't be said about a 150mp/60muni bunker or 280mp/30fuel bofors though.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
25 Jan 2016, 04:05 AM
#40
Posts: 366
Just a suggestion. Why not jusf give it an ability to switch between AA and ground forces?
For example, if I want it to target aircraft as well I have to switch to AA mode. This reduces the range it can fire at ground forces.
If it is targeting ground forces only, the range is increased.
For example, if I want it to target aircraft as well I have to switch to AA mode. This reduces the range it can fire at ground forces.
If it is targeting ground forces only, the range is increased.
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