When do you bolster squads?

Title says it all, specifically what stage of the game do you typically bolster (or as a greater part of your overall strategies such as going heavy on Tommies and bolstering early).

I know some people have strong opinions about not bolstering early (given that fast Cromwell is a typical strategy nowadays and the increased fuel cost of Bolster delays that) but I'm kind of curious as to what most people do and have had the most success with.

By my maths a bolstered squad should be 1.5x more effective than an unbolstered one so I do it as early as possible.

Also helps me with unit preservation and I find the early game much easier to get through with lots of infantry. I'll happily take fairly heavy casualties in order to earn quick command points and get my early abilities ( the only ones I seem to remember to use!) on the field.

Saying that I am distinctly rubbish at this game.

I'm not really a fan of this upgrade tbh. I don't really have trouble keeping my tommys alive (usually, lol) and prefer to keep the popcap for other things.

I'd listen to him personally...

Can't remember if I've ever even hit a popcap. If it requires keeping things alive then probably not...

After your first tank in my opinion.

35 fuel is a lot, especially given Brits weak early game, better to spend that fuel on T2 tech or that manpower on more squads. If you can get a Cromwell out at a decent time it can give you a lot of breathing room to start rolling into your powerful late-game with 5 man Tommies and dual Bren LMGs.

Having to combat a Pz4 or Ostwind without a tank of your own is a nightmare.

After your first tank in my opinion.

35 fuel is a lot, especially given Brits weak early game, better to spend that fuel on T2 tech or that manpower on more squads. If you can get a Cromwell out at a decent time it can give you a lot of breathing room to start rolling into your powerful late-game with 5 man Tommies and dual Bren LMGs.

Having to combat a Pz4 or Ostwind without a tank of your own is a nightmare.

+1

Investing in more units in from of snipers (max2) is better. It does not cost you fuel and give enemy bigger bleed

After your first tank in my opinion.

35 fuel is a lot, especially given Brits weak early game, better to spend that fuel on T2 tech or that manpower on more squads. If you can get a Cromwell out at a decent time it can give you a lot of breathing room to start rolling into your powerful late-game with 5 man Tommies and dual Bren LMGs.

Having to combat a Pz4 or Ostwind without a tank of your own is a nightmare.

That's interesting. I usually get bolster mid game actually because against OKW especially you really need that extra punch to fight against everything as IS are your bread and butter. I figured Bolster is "cheaper" if you want to power up IS because if you research weapon racks then you also need to spend an additional 60 muni per squad for the Bren.

What's the usual way to help hold the line then? I can see an extra MG being nice but not necessary if the fights only happen in one area. I guess Snipers could be alright as Hector suggested but I can see that being a problem due to Luchs rush with OKW and OST 222 to a degree. (Albeit 222 can be scared off from regular fire and a Sniper shot)

100% with Hector and CieZ, Bolster and Weapon upgrades should come after Cromwell.

Twin snipers hold the line quite well, give it a try. 222 is squishy enough to be vulnerable to Tommies + Sniper while Vet 1 snipers can ward the Luchs off or make great mine bait.

Luchs isn't as big a deal when a rather splendid Cromwell should be arriving 3-5 minutes later, assuming you skipped sidetechs.

I think as the others like Ceiz give good advice. But maybe if you struggle with squad wipes it may be worth investing in bolster earlier.

Personally I sit on 4 man squads in 1vs1 and don't bother with the upgrade. It all eats into the same pop cap at the end of the day so you might as well have five 4 man squads running around for the utility than four 5 man squads, especially if you go for tank hunters.

I almost never do it on 1v1. When i do it it is often after my second tank and after weapon rack.

Kozo.

I think as the others like Ceiz give good advice. But maybe if you struggle with squad wipes it may be worth investing in bolster earlier.

Personally I sit on 4 man squads in 1vs1 and don't bother with the upgrade. It all eats into the same pop cap at the end of the day so you might as well have five 4 man squads running around for the utility than four 5 man squads, especially if you go for tank hunters.

That's interesting... I had never really thought of it from the Pop Cap/Upkeep perspective. Sounds like its a more of a situational upgrade more for survivability than something you upgrade for the offensive boost early on.

Maybe times such as

1. You're facing heavy indirect fire and need to survive random explosions
2. You're facing Snipers (double?) and need to survive 2 volleys or just have to retreat later in general.


Although... I would imagine there is probably some juncture where its better to Bolster than to buy a Xth Squad since the Bolstered 5th man benefits from the Veterancy you've accumulated on your squads.

With the AEC now useful bolstering earlier might be a good option. 5 men will beat 4 quicker, as Lanchester applies.

The best comparison would be between equal forces, 4 x 5 or 5 x 4.

The former costs 1400MP upfront and 52.5MP per minute.
The latter costs 1270MP upfront and 48MP per minute with 35 FU.

You could remove 280MP from both to represent the starting unit.

A five man squad however is more than 50% more effective than a 4 man one purely in combat terms, and also has additional benefits such as increased repair rate, build time and both veterancy retention and earning. Also team weapon crewing, resilience and overmatching.

Four man on the other hand are better for capping and can be in more places at once.

Certainly bolstering would be more efficient than building a fifth IS, quite possibly a 4th too though I suspect most people plan on 3 plus Vickers ( which I don't think bolster effects). Delaying armour isn't quite as big a problem as it was yesterday and the 35 fuel should represent about a minute with a proper share of the map's resources.

The 35FU can be remedied with a cache for 200MP which will start to turn a profit after 12 minutes. That leaves the difference between bolstering and not to be about 70 MP, which would also turn a profit after 15:30 due to lower upkeep costs.

There are also Commandos of course, bolstering before call in the glider is an attractive proposition.

Overall I'm going to start bolstering after my first AEC and see how that goes.

How interesting,
I am going to test that too.
What do you mean by "a5mansquad is more than50% effective than a 4mansquad"?

Kozo.

Lanchester's square law.

Basically assigns a 5 man squad a value of 25 vs a 4 man squads 16. The 5 man squad is able to reduce the firepower of the 4 man squad ( by killing a model) early, then having a 5 - 3 ( 25:9) advantage. If the 5 man squad is able to kill another man before losing a model then it's advantage only escalates.

Quantity has a quality all of it's own is mathematically true, which is why you are often better back teching to less powerful units in order to have a numerical parity or superiority.

There are other factors at play, combat persistence in particular, however some of the higher level functions such as ammunition do not apply in COH2.

Another related concept is volleys. Currently I worked out that one Volks model will be dropped by 5 volleys from IS on average ( assuming they all target the same model). If however you use veterancy, equipment ( Brens) or bulletins combined to reduce this figure by a full volley then your infantry will have a decisive advantage.

Lanchester's square law.

Basically assigns a 5 man squad a value of 25 vs a 4 man squads 16. The 5 man squad is able to reduce the firepower of the 4 man squad ( by killing a model) early, then having a 5 - 3 ( 25:9) advantage. If the 5 man squad is able to kill another man before losing a model then it's advantage only escalates.

Quantity has a quality all of it's own is mathematically true, which is why you are often better back teching to less powerful units in order to have a numerical parity or superiority.

There are other factors at play, combat persistence in particular, however some of the higher level functions such as ammunition do not apply in COH2.

Another related concept is volleys. Currently I worked out that one Volks model will be dropped by 5 volleys from IS on average ( assuming they all target the same model). If however you use veterancy, equipment ( Brens) or bulletins combined to reduce this figure by a full volley then your infantry will have a decisive advantage.

Did not know about Lanchester's square law until now. Very interesting. As well the salvo combat model.

Lanchester's square law.

Basically assigns a 5 man squad a value of 25 vs a 4 man squads 16. The 5 man squad is able to reduce the firepower of the 4 man squad ( by killing a model) early, then having a 5 - 3 ( 25:9) advantage. If the 5 man squad is able to kill another man before losing a model then it's advantage only escalates.

Quantity has a quality all of it's own is mathematically true, which is why you are often better back teching to less powerful units in order to have a numerical parity or superiority.

There are other factors at play, combat persistence in particular, however some of the higher level functions such as ammunition do not apply in COH2.

Another related concept is volleys. Currently I worked out that one Volks model will be dropped by 5 volleys from IS on average ( assuming they all target the same model). If however you use veterancy, equipment ( Brens) or bulletins combined to reduce this figure by a full volley then your infantry will have a decisive advantage.

Kind of curious what this looks like if you test it in game (e.g. 50 engagements between IS and Grens/Volks and see how many more you win with the 5th man)

And what is more efficient, 5 man squads or Brens? Also how many Brens?

I have noticed that Vickers seem to take casualties across the entire squad whereas rifles seem to lose health from individual men too. You'll often see a Vickers with three men left but very little health between them, whereas IS taking small arms fire tend to lose health from the tail end charlie. I'm not yet sure whether this is due to garrisoned Vickers tending to take IDF though. Could do with testing it.

This also has an effect, as whilst the Lee Enfields the weapons crews use suck they still do damage. The MG42 is a clearly superior weapon on stats alone but the Vickers wins out due to the rifles rather than SMGs the crew carries, at long range anyway or when garrisoned.

Generally I'm finding that the Brits strength stems from the commanders, especially the pay ones. Still not sure what the best way to juggle infantry upgrades versus using munitions on abilities though I suspect abilities are stronger.

Relics refusal to fix the UC interests me too, it is the cheapest and most efficient unit the Brits possess in pure manpower terms ( 210MP + 6 manpower tax) hence Lanchester would suggest it is potentially the most powerful unit if used en masse. I might try crushing infantry with them, not sure whether they can or not. Devs are devious and I rather suspect they know something we don't.

And what is more efficient, 5 man squads or Brens? Also how many Brens?

I have noticed that Vickers seem to take casualties across the entire squad whereas rifles seem to lose health from individual men too. You'll often see a Vickers with three men left but very little health between them, whereas IS taking small arms fire tend to lose health from the tail end charlie. I'm not yet sure whether this is due to garrisoned Vickers tending to take IDF though. Could do with testing it.

This also has an effect, as whilst the Lee Enfields the weapons crews use suck they still do damage. The MG42 is a clearly superior weapon on stats alone but the Vickers wins out due to the rifles rather than SMGs the crew carries, at long range anyway or when garrisoned.

Generally I'm finding that the Brits strength stems from the commanders, especially the pay ones. Still not sure what the best way to juggle infantry upgrades versus using munitions on abilities though I suspect abilities are stronger.

Relics refusal to fix the UC interests me too, it is the cheapest and most efficient unit the Brits possess in pure manpower terms ( 210MP + 6 manpower tax) hence Lanchester would suggest it is potentially the most powerful unit if used en masse. I might try crushing infantry with them, not sure whether they can or not. Devs are devious and I rather suspect they know something we don't.

Double brens all the way, specially vs okw. Vickers dies too fast, but it is always good to keep at least one around for suppression sake.

UC is great early on, but vs the panzershreck spam they tend not to survive a whole lot.

USF and UKF both rely on commanders to compensate for their mediocre base roster.

After reading this I decided to try bolster squads asap, before teching. Currently I am 3 for 3 victories two vs Wer, 1 vs OKW, I'm ranked around 300 as brits too so I'm not playing complete noobs...

It's still in it's infancy but here is my current tactic:

#1: Build an MG

#2: Send starting unit to cap your cutoff and fuel, send the MG to cap a point to build a fuel cache.

#3: Build a fuel Cache, place MG to defend your sectors (it will only be 3-4 points max at this point.

#4: Bolster asap and produce 2 more tommie squads.

#5: Tech up asap and build depending on the game BUT, unlock weapons asap.

#6: Give each tommie squad 1 bren (contrary to the statement abouve, when tommies reach vet 3 they will always drop a bren when the first model dies, its too much risk to give the enemy a bren so I just equip them with 1. Give your engie squads the piats, give them 2, if it hits along with the at gun you can scare off or even kill a p4 or ostwind within seconds.

#7: Play as you normally would, you are back on track to where you would be without bolster squads only with more fuel and map control.