Moscow Outskirts - Summer - Quarter Finals
I have watched the available replays (3 of the matches) for the Quarter finals of the TFN tournament. A total of 7 games. Results stand at Russians 5 wins, Germans 2 wins. 5-2 not too bad however in the 2 games the Germans won it took them a lot longer to do so and in those 2 games the Russian players DID NOT build any scout cars. In the games the Russian won they built 1,2 or 3 (in Sepha's case) scout cars and abuse flames/Guards. Even players of this standard are finding it extremely difficult to counter early SC rushes. I fear the $1000 dollars may go to a person who abuses the most OP unit in the game. Just my 2 cents.
Cheers Grund.
COH 2 Tournament Balance
30 Jun 2013, 02:15 AM
#1
Posts: 49
30 Jun 2013, 02:27 AM
#2
Posts: 32
Its no secret that for the moment soviet does have an edge over german in 1v1. I think only some minor tweak to some ''abusive'' unit would balance it out but the better player should still win i think.
30 Jun 2013, 03:46 AM
#3
Posts: 642
Its no secret that for the moment soviet does have an edge over german in 1v1. I think only some minor tweak to some ''abusive'' unit would balance it out but the better player should still win i think.
It has an edge over germans both 1v1 and 2v2 (2v2 is not really worthy of balance talk however).
I think scout cars are not amazingly OP, but they do need some tweaking because the beginning 3:00 of the game willd ecide the momentum. Scout cars come at around 2:30-4:00, and can really turn the tide for a while.
30 Jun 2013, 06:40 AM
#4
Posts: 78
Its no secret that for the moment soviet does have an edge over german in 1v1. I think only some minor tweak to some ''abusive'' unit would balance it out but the better player should still win i think.
The better player will still win in tournament format since players have to play both sides.
It comes down to who is more efficient as Soviets or put up more of a fight as Germans. You could almost metagame it and rush the VPs as Germans at the beginning of the game, just to tick down as many as you can early on so that you'll have a tiebreaker edge.
I spent about four hours today watching streams and Soviets were dominating almost every game. There was even one where the player who started German was clearly worse and got annihilated as Germans, but as Soviets lost the early game but built a T-70 and killed 4 squads and had over 30 infantry kills before finally losing in the late game.
Click here to see a list of my COH2 guides and unit overviews.
Current tips of the day
#1: Keep your army together!
#2: Never have two MGs firing at the same infantry squad
#3: Bring your MGs along with your army
Current tips of the day
#1: Keep your army together!
#2: Never have two MGs firing at the same infantry squad
#3: Bring your MGs along with your army
30 Jun 2013, 06:50 AM
#5
Posts: 954
I'd love to see a 2v2 tournament everyone is using opel blitz to get the prize
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
30 Jun 2013, 10:47 AM
#6
4 
Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
It has an edge over germans both 1v1 and 2v2 (2v2 is not really worthy of balance talk however)
This is a nonfactual statement. The evidence of the beta results offer some perspective or the game of sepha and Hans against the relic balance developers where they tried to pull of a scout car rush and failed. It is important to learn the mechanics and react accordingly to what you face. If you hear a scout car, group your 2 grens (you can hear the scout car easily in the fog of war since it's the only wheeled unit at that particular moment in the game during which it is still effective) or employ one of the many other possible counters.
Help test the USF teching adjustment mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1553135357
30 Jun 2013, 11:16 AM
#7
Posts: 881
This is a nonfactual statement. The evidence of the beta results offer some perspective or the game of sepha and Hans against the relic balance developers where they tried to pull of a scout car rush and failed. It is important to learn the mechanics and react accordingly to what you face. If you hear a scout car, group your 2 grens (you can hear the scout car easily in the fog of war since it's the only wheeled unit at that particular moment in the game during which it is still effective) or employ one of the many other possible counters.
pqumsieh, Relic balance dev, vs Sepha, testing the M3 rush:
http://www.twitch.tv/pqumsieh/b/423251939
Start 15 minutes in. Just one of many games where this happened, and pqumsieh know it's coming.
30 Jun 2013, 11:47 AM
#8
4 Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
pqumsieh, Relic balance dev, vs Sepha, testing the M3 rush:
http://www.twitch.tv/pqumsieh/b/423251939
Start 15 minutes in. Just one of many games where this happened, and pqumsieh know it's coming.
I absolutely agree that the 3 scout car strat is problematic and deserves another look at it. However it's not the predominant strategy for now, since its effectiveness isn't that well known so far, which was the principal reason for the objection. The scout car on it's own doesn't seem that problematic, it's their number and the fact that Guards are available rather early which counters the hardcounter to the scout car.
Thanks for the replay link. Very interesting.
Help test the USF teching adjustment mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1553135357
30 Jun 2013, 18:12 PM
#9
Posts: 331
This is a nonfactual statement. The evidence of the beta results offer some perspective or the game of sepha and Hans against the relic balance developers where they tried to pull of a scout car rush and failed.
Are you talking about this? Because this includes comp stomps, 1v1,2v2,3v3,4v4. So it essentially tells you nothing.
30 Jun 2013, 22:10 PM
#10
1 
Posts: 4559 | Subs: 2
Yeah, we pretty much showed that in any 2-0 it was the player that made the result, winning with both factions. On 2-1 results tho, it's always all Russians victories.
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30 Jun 2013, 22:15 PM
#11
Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2
I've thought about doing an analysis of all the tourney games (or all of them from round 4 onwards or something) to find out what the W/L ratio for each faction is, what doctrines are chosen, build orders, etc. But with no CoH 2 Replay Analzyer it would be a pain.
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30 Jun 2013, 22:46 PM
#12
1 Posts: 4559 | Subs: 2
I am going to do it already for Relic, will PM you the results Tycho 
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1 Jul 2013, 18:59 PM
#13
Posts: 881
I am going to do it already for Relic, will PM you the results Tycho
I'm sure many people would like to see those stats
1 Jul 2013, 19:09 PM
#14
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
These stats means nothing, why the fook they included compstomps, 3v3 and 4v4 matches? when it's obvious that 90% games on these maps/mods is a win for axis
It's the most fail stats ever i think, it has nothing to do with balance
1 Jul 2013, 20:38 PM
#15
Posts: 78
Another key thing to note is that balance is not the same at all levels of play. I think that for newer or more casual players, the ratio is pretty close to 50/50 and a combination of luck, positioning or hitting upon a good strategy decides the game (which is all good).
At higher levels, this might not be the case since people are more aware of potentially overpowered units.
It reminds me of how in the early days of SC2, everyone complained that Zerg was too weak because they composed only 20% of the players at the top levels, and usually ended up having one of the final eight in tournaments.
Blizzard countered that the win ratio was virtually identical at lower levels and acknowledged that there was a discrepancy at higher levels, but that it was hard for them to come up with a change that would improve the upper tier play while not unbalancing the lower tiers.
aka I think Germans = Zerg
At higher levels, this might not be the case since people are more aware of potentially overpowered units.
It reminds me of how in the early days of SC2, everyone complained that Zerg was too weak because they composed only 20% of the players at the top levels, and usually ended up having one of the final eight in tournaments.
Blizzard countered that the win ratio was virtually identical at lower levels and acknowledged that there was a discrepancy at higher levels, but that it was hard for them to come up with a change that would improve the upper tier play while not unbalancing the lower tiers.
aka I think Germans = Zerg
Click here to see a list of my COH2 guides and unit overviews.
Current tips of the day
#1: Keep your army together!
#2: Never have two MGs firing at the same infantry squad
#3: Bring your MGs along with your army
Current tips of the day
#1: Keep your army together!
#2: Never have two MGs firing at the same infantry squad
#3: Bring your MGs along with your army
1 Jul 2013, 22:24 PM
#16
Posts: 644
Soviets have the advantage in any game mode where you can't roll up the front with 3+ PzIV by 10:00. (German tanks actually scale better than soviets)
5 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
2 Jul 2013, 12:19 PM
#17
Posts: 336
Amongst specific statistics, I like to see the faction chosen in a third/fifth decisive game. This tells us something about player preference and thus implied balance.
Most other statistics are quite useless as you have to account for to many variables (map, doctrine, units produced, player skill level, match number, match duration etc.), which results in ambigious conclusions.
Most other statistics are quite useless as you have to account for to many variables (map, doctrine, units produced, player skill level, match number, match duration etc.), which results in ambigious conclusions.
There Used To Be Great Nullist Quotes Here.
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