Panzer grenadiers are worthless without shreks upgrade
15 Dec 2015, 09:30 AM
#1
Posts: 131
I tried to play with 2 pz grens ass flanking squad as good old time when WFA came out but they are not worth as AI.They die so quickly without veterancy,they can't kill british long range units even in close quarters.Anyone think the same?I think some survivability buffs,maybe on received accuracy or mp 44 incresea damage,dps would make them worth
15 Dec 2015, 09:37 AM
#2
Posts: 830
I tried to play with 2 pz grens ass flanking squad as good old time when WFA came out but they are not worth as AI.They die so quickly without veterancy,they can't kill british long range units even in close quarters.Anyone think the same?I think some survivability buffs,maybe on received accuracy or mp 44 incresea damage,dps would make them worth
They feel wonky until they reach vet 2. They drop models way too quickly in my opinion,but their weapons do great damage. There was a time where they could 1v1 shocks, but those days are now long gone.
Received accuracy at vet 0 would the trick, we don't want terminator vet 3 Panzer Grenadiers from launch days back..
15 Dec 2015, 10:39 AM
#3
Posts: 322
They are the best stock AI unit.
Brummbar is very powerful
15 Dec 2015, 10:43 AM
#4
Posts: 707
Received accuracy at vet 0 would the trick, we don't want terminator vet 3 Panzer Grenadiers from launch days back..
Why not? Ostheer has NO elite infantry call in anyway, the best they have is PG, and they are expensive.
Since allied have terminator/undead infantry like Shocks/vet 3 Riflemen/pre-patch vet 2 IS (dont know about this patch), OKW has obers etc, right now Ostheer is really lacking in the infantry department, it makes sense to make PG a terminator at vet 3 as well, just increase their vet requirement like Riflemen and they will be fine.
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15 Dec 2015, 10:47 AM
#5
Posts: 621
I used them like Sturmpios a flanking unit when the enemy is engaged with my other units
15 Dec 2015, 11:13 AM
#6
Posts: 875 | Subs: 6
Panzer Grenadiers have low health for their role, but they make up for it with really high DPS at close and medium. They're not Shock Troops, they have really good medium range damage so it's often good to just sit at medium range instead of charging through the open to get close. I think it's important to only use them as supporting units alongside Grens, MG or Sniper, you have to use them either to flank units whilst they're focusing something else, advancing through cover, ambushing units or being used defensively.
They're quite thematic for Wehrmacht since they're a very synergy and combined arms unit, you really can't just run up to squads in the open taking damage the entire time and expect to win. They also come at an awkward window when they're dealing with vet 2 basic infantry whilst vet 0 themselves, and not as strong and expensive as say Obers or Rangers to make up for it. Don't spam them.
They're quite thematic for Wehrmacht since they're a very synergy and combined arms unit, you really can't just run up to squads in the open taking damage the entire time and expect to win. They also come at an awkward window when they're dealing with vet 2 basic infantry whilst vet 0 themselves, and not as strong and expensive as say Obers or Rangers to make up for it. Don't spam them.
15 Dec 2015, 11:17 AM
#7
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
They are worth their price. Just don't use tem as assault units, becasue the are not assault units, like shocks.
15 Dec 2015, 11:23 AM
#8
7 
Posts: 1664
I like where PGrens are at right now. Until vet two they are indeed squishy but that's why we have things like 251 to keep them on the field, field-first aid to keep them healthy, Ambush Camo to cloak them etc...
Treat them like Fals and glue them to Green cover in every fight they are in until they get vetted up.
Treat them like Fals and glue them to Green cover in every fight they are in until they get vetted up.
15 Dec 2015, 11:33 AM
#9
3 
Posts: 587
Their weapons are awesome at all ranges, i think people confuse them to COH 1 Stormtroopers with MP 44´s that sucked ass, unless you were standing right next to the target, Move them to cover and they will usually outlast the opponent in a firefight
(Long range engaments has the danger element that the enemy will drop mortars on you, or get a MG to suppress your unit since the firefight takes longer, so be wary of that)
(Long range engaments has the danger element that the enemy will drop mortars on you, or get a MG to suppress your unit since the firefight takes longer, so be wary of that)
15 Dec 2015, 11:34 AM
#10
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Why not? Ostheer has NO elite infantry call in anyway, the best they have is PG, and they are expensive.
Since allied have terminator/undead infantry like Shocks/vet 3 Riflemen/pre-patch vet 2 IS (dont know about this patch), OKW has obers etc, right now Ostheer is really lacking in the infantry department, it makes sense to make PG a terminator at vet 3 as well, just increase their vet requirement like Riflemen and they will be fine.
No, ostheer HAS Elite troops, is just that these elite troops are not quite elite
. And I'm talking about stormtroopers. The stormtroopers need some kind of buff and I don't see a reason for which they can't receive it. They are to be found in just 2 doctrines, are expensive, and a 4 men squad, that can receive expensive upgrades. I realy don't understand why they can't be upgraded with the second shreck, for instance. I think the idea is that they should - through upgrades - become an AI specialized unit, or an AT specialized unit. Upgrading them just one shreck, does not transform them into a specialized AT unit, but into a verry mediocre one.Related to Pzgrenadiers, I agree they should worth the investment, and if not more survivability, at least they could use a little more AI punch if not upgraded with shrecks.
Edit: Or, make them vet faster.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
15 Dec 2015, 11:39 AM
#11
Posts: 521
I find they can be really useful as anti-infantry squads. But you have to get them pretty early so they can get some vet before the terminator squads roll out.
15 Dec 2015, 11:50 AM
#12
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Panzergrenadiers are micro-intensive units; arguably one of the toughest infantry units to utilize correctly. Having said that, I think this is fine considering LMG grens are fairly easy to micro. So the overall micro-burden of playing Ostheer does not get too high by incorporating one or two Pgren squads.
STG44 Stormtroopers are the best flanking unit in the game. Get behind the enemy -> activate their focus fire ability -> watch as they murder retreating squads. The Stormtroopers special ability is often overlooked (as is the paratroopers thompson focus fire ability). Again, not easy to use, but absolutely devastating when you pull it off.
No, ostheer HAS Elite troops, is just that these elite troops are not quite elite
STG44 Stormtroopers are the best flanking unit in the game. Get behind the enemy -> activate their focus fire ability -> watch as they murder retreating squads. The Stormtroopers special ability is often overlooked (as is the paratroopers thompson focus fire ability). Again, not easy to use, but absolutely devastating when you pull it off.
15 Dec 2015, 11:55 AM
#13
Posts: 1653
Panzergrenadiers are micro-intensive units; arguably one of the toughest infantry units to utilize correctly. Having said that, I think this is fine considering LMG grens are fairly easy to micro. So the overall micro-burden of playing Ostheer does not get too high by incorporating one or two Pgren squads.
STG44 Stormtroopers are the best flanking unit in the game. Get behind the enemy -> activate their focus fire ability -> watch as they murder retreating squads. The Stormtroopers special ability is often overlooked (as is the paratroopers thompson focus fire ability). Again, not easy to use, but absolutely devastating when you pull it off.
+1
15 Dec 2015, 12:45 PM
#14
Posts: 1217
Grens + LMG > Panzergrenadiers for cost.
Grens do everything that PGs can do. They are more cost efficient and available earlier. Some people will say that PGs are good for defending an MG from cover. But that is way too niche for them to be worthwhile. Also Grens can do that just as well. They melt down infantry from long range.
Imo the long range dps of PGs should be buffed. They should have an advantage over Grens who are cheaper. I´m not paying more manpower to get a unit that´s weaker in long range engagements, which are pretty much the most common kind of engagement in the game.
PGs aren´t trash themselves. They are just redundant and cost more than equally efficient units.
Grens do everything that PGs can do. They are more cost efficient and available earlier. Some people will say that PGs are good for defending an MG from cover. But that is way too niche for them to be worthwhile. Also Grens can do that just as well. They melt down infantry from long range.
Imo the long range dps of PGs should be buffed. They should have an advantage over Grens who are cheaper. I´m not paying more manpower to get a unit that´s weaker in long range engagements, which are pretty much the most common kind of engagement in the game.
PGs aren´t trash themselves. They are just redundant and cost more than equally efficient units.
15 Dec 2015, 12:58 PM
#15
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Well currently, the only viable reason for building them, is to upgrade them imediately with shrecks. From that point of view, I prefer using them instead of pack40s tbh.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
15 Dec 2015, 13:02 PM
#16
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
like most other axis elite infantry, vet 2 is when they start to shine.
15 Dec 2015, 14:40 PM
#17
Posts: 1705
They need to vet faster and have a proper vet 1.They are also helpless vs lmg infantry.
therwise after reinforcement cost decrease they are atleast useable.
therwise after reinforcement cost decrease they are atleast useable.
15 Dec 2015, 14:51 PM
#18
Posts: 468
They are fine where they are. You guys talk about buffing their damage, health, accuracy, long range, received accuracy... seems like some people just want old terminators back that has AI and AT roles.
Imagine your suggestions of increased health. The consequences are they could probably beat most allied tanks, which a lot of people who get 2 squads already do as is. If you increase the long range capability, you're just replacing grenadiers.
Imagine your suggestions of increased health. The consequences are they could probably beat most allied tanks, which a lot of people who get 2 squads already do as is. If you increase the long range capability, you're just replacing grenadiers.
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15 Dec 2015, 14:52 PM
#19
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Its been almost three years of trying to explain that PGs are not shocks and trying to use them as such will result in failure, yet people still don't get it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
15 Dec 2015, 14:53 PM
#20
Posts: 1484
They need to vet faster and have a proper vet 1.They are also helpless vs lmg infantry.
therwise after reinforcement cost decrease they are atleast useable.
Just add in veterancy increased bulletin and you are golden!
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