Another OKW Tweak Thread

I released an OKW redesign proposal a few months ago in an attempt to address the problems the faction had. Now that the OKW have been completely rehauled, many of the original problems I thought the faction had have been solved. Problem is that Relic created new problems in the process. So here are my new proposed changes to fix the OKW. They're fairly preliminary, but I think it's a good start.

General Changes
- Starting manpower reduced from 340 to 300

Volksgrenadiers
- Panzershreck upgrade removed
- Scavenge ability removed
- Population increased from 5 to 7
- Vet 1 ability (-10% received accuracy) changed to Sprint
- Vet 3 bonus changed to Passive Healing and -20% accuracy

Sturmpioneers
- Population reduced from 9 to 7

Kubelwagen
- Can no longer capture points
- Now has "Red Hot" ability. Costs 15 munitions to use. Significantly decreases gun accuracy for a period of time but allows the vehicle to suppress enemy infantry
- Fuel cost increased from 0 to 5

Flak Halftrack
- Now sets up instantly

Jagdpanzer IV
- Penetration increased from 200.0/185.0/170.0 to 260.0/240.0/220.0
- Fuel cost increased from 135 to 150
- Cautious Movement ability removed
- Vet 1 ability changed to Vehicle Camouflage. Allows the Jagdpanzer IV to become invisible while still.
- Population reduced from 14 to 12

Panzer IV
- Fuel cost increased from 135 to 150

Panther Tank
- Fuel cost increased from 175 to 200

King Tiger
- Fuel cost increased from 260 to 350
- Frontal armor increased from 375 to to 450

Jagdtiger
- Fuel cost increased from 290 to 350
- Frontal armor reduced from 525 to 450
- Daze mechanic removed
- Vet 5 bonus changed to -20% reload

Sturmtiger
- Fuel cost increased from 160 to 200

good changes.. like the kubel one.. not sure about the flak HT setting up instantly, it reks.

Please can we just make 1 post with everyones opinion. Getting tired of all the posts already. Yes there has to be some tweaks, but not 50 posts.

To construct on your opinions:

I'm not gonna comment on infantry, since I've seen better changes for those.

Kubelwagen:

Without capping it's crap, and for 15 ammo to spend on supression, no'one is going to use it.

Flak halftrack:

Good change

Jagdpanzer IV:

I like those Idea's

Panzer IV:

If you make it 150 fuel it need to get some penetration buff, since it cost more than a T34/85 and Ez8.

Panther Tank:

200 fuel is justified.

King Tiger:

Wouldn't change it, but would give it a 14 cp requirement to it.

Jagdtiger: 300 fuel would be enough for the unit, it would be justified to reduce it's frontal armor to 475. Rest of the changes me likey.

Wow. Apparently, you want to modify the chart statistics. Which is good, but the idea that they will look completely opposite from what they are now, I mean allied wins skyhigh, Axis wins quite rare, does not represent a solution. Because that will happen if what you wrote here would be implemented.

JP4 overbuff why exactly?

Is it considered sinful when axis TD have more then 0% to bounce of anything that isn't IS-2?

Wow. Apparently, you want to modify the chart statistics. Which is good, but the idea that they will look completely opposite from what they are now, I mean allied wins skyhigh, Axis wins quite rare, does not represent a solution. Because that will happen if what you wrote here would be implemented.

Major nerfs are only the reduction in starting manpower and the Shreck removal. Fuel costs increases mostly just make the tanks cost what they should. And there are a few buffs too.

Honestly, I was reluctant to remove Panzershrecks from Volks. I thought about giving the upgrade to Sturmpioneers, then thought about giving it to Obersoldaten. Didn't think either would work honestly. I think it's best just to get rid of the thing and then reevaluate. Let the Raketenwerfer and the Puma get some use.

Edit - You know you've done something right when one guy's complaining that you've nerfed the OKW to the ground and the next is complaining the Jagdpanzer IV got overbuffed.

1. No playercard.
2. Volks no AI upgrade, give them something when removing schrecks. If volks have no schrecks, who has them now?
3. P4 costing more than T34/85 & EZ8 while being worse
4. Panther costs increased for no reason what so ever, if you want to delay it, do it by teching (e.g. all 3 trucks need to be deployed)
5. KT armor would make it too strong, it still needs to be countered by AT guns
6. JP4 would go through armour like a knife through warm butter, no reason for those changes. You have a panther to counter heavy armour.
7. What's the point of the Kübelwagen now???
8. Sturmtiger fuel increased for no reason

Major nerfs are only the reduction in starting manpower and the Shreck removal. Fuel costs increases mostly just make the tanks cost what they should. And there are a few buffs too.

Honestly, I was reluctant to suggesting removing Shrecks from Volks. I thought about giving the upgrade to Sturmpioneers, then thought about giving it to Obersoldaten. Didn't think either would work honestly. I think it's best just to get rid of the thing and then reevaluate.

Well, to put it in a nutshell, I disagree with vehicle buffs you proposed if they come with such a fuel price.
In my opinion shrecks should be removed from volks only if another unit will be created, "tank hunters" - 4 models, costs only mp (price is debatable), comes with a shreck included and costs 90 amo if you want to give them another one.

Otherwise these "remove shrecks from volks" ideas - suported by an important part of comunity - are wrong in my view, but that's just my opinion. Relic did some changes based on comunity feedback and look where we are now. It's clear for me that the most vocal high level comunity members don't have a clue about balance or the way OKW works.

Well we just might let balance in the hands of Katitof, he will make the best of it. Oh, the horror!

1. No playercard.
2. Volks no AI upgrade, give them something when removing schrecks. If volks have no schrecks, who has them now?
3. P4 costing more than T34/85 & EZ8 while being worse
4. Panther costs increased for no reason what so ever, if you want to delay it, do it by teching (e.g. all 3 trucks need to be deployed)
5. KT armor would make it too strong, it still needs to be countered by AT guns
6. JP4 would go through armour like a knife through warm butter, no reason for those changes. You have a panther to counter heavy armour.
7. What's the point of the Kübelwagen now???
8. Sturmtiger fuel increased for no reason

1. No playercard either.

OKW units are designed to be tough nuts and 5 levels of vet for superscaling coz IT WAS AN ELITE, resource STARVED FACTION, but most forum warriors made countless threads for 100% income and volks damage buffs, which eventually blew up in our own face right?

on topic.

with the schrecks gone.. you expect okw to fight tanks with roketans lol? gl with that.
Also the feul increases can be mitigated easily with feul drops or caches.(team games logic ofc)

kubel suppression was cancer, don't bring it back

1. No playercard either.

Show Spoiler

Still, most of these changes make no sense.

1. No playercard either.

Really?

Edit: Katitof was quicker than me

Axis has powerful Tanks and armors and Allied has very weak hand held AT (Bazooka and PTRS)
While Allied has weaker tanks armor and Axis has very powerful shrecks
Is that Balance !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shrecks damage should be nerfed to 80 and also it's accuracy from far range should be nerfed as well, and let Relic lower it's cost to like 70 no problem.

Bazooka got buffed, PTRS is fine now. PIAT (when they hit, do good damage).

Bye (sounds like Swai) Dan 3.

- Frontal armor increased from 375 to to 450

Why not 475 or even 500?