Struggling vs OKW 1v1 (Dec patch)

Since the Dec patch and the update to OKW, I've really been struggling against them. Last night I lost 5-6 in a row just against OKW. Against Ost things have been business as usual, with both wins and losses.

So far this is what I’ve most commonly seen:

Kubels constantly harassing cut points. Due to Kubels now being able to cap and acting less like a suppression platform, I expected this, however I didn’t expect it to be so rough on resources. My cutoffs are constantly being attacked, and as a result I’m having to babysit those points. Obviously after enough time has passed, I can build a fighting position or something similar to help, but in the initial few minutes of the game, it really disrupts things.

Never ending Volks spam. I’m not sure if it’s because they got a huge DPS buff or just because of their cheaper popcap, but Volks spam has been very prominent in most of my recent matches. It seems like 9/10 times my OKW opponent goes Luftwaffe ground as well, so there is usually ample MG support. Shreks arrive quickly, so it makes early vehicle harassment on them a bit tough at times. This sometimes forces me to tech smoke, which further pushes back all other teching.

Very quick Luchs or halftrack. I’ve actually seen more halftracks lately than Luchs, and theyre both equally disruptive. Countering these actually isn’t that big of a deal, however I feel like this often sets me back in my teching quite a bit. I generally try and counter with the Captain, although sometimes I’ll put a bazooka on an RE to help.

Lastly, quick panther or KT. A lone panther, especially one that isn’t well supported is fine, however these KTs can be nasty. I’ve not experience any of the insane 13-14 min KT’s like some people have been reporting, but these things definitely come out fast. Sometimes I feel like I’m barely getting out a Jackson before I see the first panther arriving.

Opinions on what I’ve tried:
I’m conflicted on whether or not going LT is useful. The .50cal definitely helps slow down the Volk blob, and the M20 is great for harassing lone MGs or Sturm squads out by themselves. I also like dropping M20 mines. The problem is that when early vehicles arrive, I’m often screwed. Not only that, it slows down teching, and I feel like the Captain is a must now.

The stuart seems to be hit or miss as well. I typically use it with Riflemen to push the enemy off a point, or just general harassment. It’s always supported, and it does a nice job. The downside is that once it rolls out there, it’s almost a guarantee that Volks will start teching shreks. It’s good, but is it 70 fuel good? I’m not sure quite yet.
I’ve been using Airborne more to allow me to skip LT tier and still drop .50cals. I’m pretty good at preserving Riflemen, but in the event that I lose one, I typically replace them with Paratroopers who have great AI. The new Tactical Support commander is strong too, although I’ve had much better luck with him against Ost it seems.

For those who have been successful against OKW in 1v1, what particular strategies have you found useful? Any strong build orders? OKW seems extremely strong this patch, and even when outplaying the opponent, I notice that any small mistake knocks me out.

Made the same thread on reddit.

A few replies, nothing we don't already know but maybe you'll find something helpful. Hopefully a hotfix is coming to at least fix the pop cap issue so we see a little less Volks spam.

Luchs:

My opinion is you can't do shit vs a well microed Luchs. There are too many shrecks on the field the moment your Stuart hit the field to be a treat to him or he seriously fucked his micro. I prefer to go Lieutenant + Zooks + Half-track to take the volks blob suppressed and try some hit on the Luchs but guess what last time I tried to kill a Luchs with zook, it missed 2x2 volleys in a raw, can't help vs bad luck.
So eventually you'll take the Luchs out to face the Pz4 or Panther afterward.

Why I also prefer the Half-track: Both the HT and the Stuart are pointless vs the OKW Pz4 and Panther. I mean ok, a Stuart is interesting with the stun + an tank in support, but here again, what do you do vs the shreck blob? Better having a HT to suppress the blob and Zooks + tanks vs the Pz4. With a bit of micro I manage to save the HT quite a long time every game.
In addition it become a source of frustration for the other player so he may lose his temper to kill it and do something stupid that can benefice you.

Early game:

It is sad to say but, blob.
I send my RE capping and keep my rifles close to my cutoff until I have 3 squads. I fact, I let him attack the first round. Your RE should be able to take down the Kubel alone with some micro.
And then I start blobbing with 3 rifles asap, my goal is to seek confrontation and focus fire on the sturm, ideally I take it down. And repeat.

Lieutenant
Once the lieutenant bought, it depends on the map and how you are engaged, M20 to harass his fuel or .50 to use it with your blob. Yes use the .50 with your 3RM. It is easy, you send your blob A-move in a direction and when you start fighting you keep microing your RMs squads, the .50 setup alone and start suppressing from behind.
Zooks: equip your zooks on RE
HT: keep the zooks close to the HT and use it as a central point, always keep your RM in front of them and if you have to hard retreat all of them, retreat the HT as well.

Panic button
If I can't kill the Luchs fast enough, it also means I didn't cut if fuel or took enough advantage so I expect Pz4, In this case I go Armor for a fast M10.
If I took the Luch and I'm confident I can handle him, I go Major first or not, honestly I'll probably go Armor in any case

Personally I end up many games vs OKW with 2x.50, I use 1 for capping and harassing and 1 to protect my flank. Just A-move it so it only set up when he sees enemies.

I had moderate success with LT 50 cal bazooka tech get 2 bars one zook into Captain into optional stuart builds.

But then again I went 2-6, and have yet to beat anyone in the top 75. Which is disappointing to my standards. But oh well

Volks popcap on top of the damage buff is basically cheating anyway, you'll never win against someone of equal skill unless they really fuck up.

Thanks for all the different replies. I'll try to mix in some more .50cal usage and see what happens. I have to be careful with buildings though, because my opponent seems to go Luftwaffe 9/10 times, so he's always got Falls popping out of buildings all over the place.

Regarding the popcap issue, it really does feel like cheating.

It's able to defeat them, but after using OKW in 1v1's the AAHT or Luch Trollolololol party is just too much for the opponent. The kubel is probably 1 of the main reasons the opponent loses, because it's resources go down like a fly with the kubel cut off haressments

Hu? I think OKW is way too weak. KT arriving at 11 min? Sorry I think that it needs to arrive at 9 to beat an early stuart.

It's able to defeat them, but after using OKW in 1v1's the AAHT or Luch Trollolololol party is just too much for the opponent. The kubel is probably 1 of the main reasons the opponent loses, because it's resources go down like a fly with the kubel cut off haressments

Iron Emperor, the capping kubels are definitely one of the main problems. Resources take a big hit right off the bat, and that just makes the entire rest of the game an uphill battle.

Thanks for making this thread. I was going to make one and you perfectly described my experience with this patch so far. It's frustrating because I feel like I"m constantly behind Tech even in an even match, at best you can manage a Sherman shortly before a PZ4 rolls out and the new 100% Munitions makes the Shrek blob feel real. It feels like the old days of "win early or you lose"

How does everyone handle teching now? I feel like LT -> Major is totally out of the question. I'm tempted to start doing a straight tech progression because the .50 Cal feels needed to control the 5 pop cap volk swarm. Maybe focus on elite infantry AI with ATG and Jackson support for AT?.

Hu? I think OKW is way too weak. KT arriving at 11 min? Sorry I think that it needs to arrive at 9 to beat an early stuart.

Agreed.

Hu? I think OKW is way too weak. KT arriving at 11 min? Sorry I think that it needs to arrive at 9 to beat an early stuart.

Haha yeah thats true. Thank you Relic for screwing up your own game - again .

7 losses in a row. All vs OKW. I passed from 241 to 501. In the next Hotfix they say that will fix the OKW Popcap, but will be enough?
Now with 100% resource even if you win the early game the meta will be everytime won by OWV or at least on even, so the late the match is lost for sure.

7 losses in a row. All vs OKW. I passed from 241 to 501. In the next Hotfix they say that will fix the OKW Popcap, but will be enough?
Now with 100% resource even if you win the early game the meta will be everytime won by OWV or at least on even, so the late the match is lost for sure.

I think the popcap is definitely one of the larger issues, but whether or not it will be enough remains to be seen. Many times, even when I've won the early games, my OKW opponent seems to field a rather large army.

The other big issues is the the kubel capping. Having to babysit your cutoff points can be a major burder in the first few minutes. Obviously as time goes on, you can set up mines, fighting position, etc, but when you're severely behind in resources for the first 5 minutes of the match, it can really set the tone.

OKW is simply too strong now. I quit playing soviets and bought USF and spammed them for ~15 games.

The problem is, unless you literally OBLITERATE the OKW, they will stay in the game until they can field a king tiger.

On every map the schewer panzer headquarters can stall 1 fuel unless you have an abhorent lead, the only late game USF options that are decent are easy 8 shermans or pershing.

I played a game where my pershing got 35 kills and he managed to squeeze the KT out with a 3 rocketenwerfer stall + 1 ober + schewer PHQ ( complete suicude to push into), KT came out and all 5 of his volks squads were 4-5 vet with shreks, I ended up misclicking and pershing died instantly and KT lived with ~15% health.

Loss.

Deranked from 88 to 250 on my main vs only OKW, sometimes losing to rank 400 players that manage to stall for KT.

The worst part about this patch is that the OKW is even good early game now. Volks are killers, outclass conscripts in every way, and if they hit vet 5 they can brawl pound for pound with all infantry in the game.

When late game comes , all the explosions destroy cover so that running to close range with anything ( thompsons, shocks etc) means you will be on open cover vs vet 5 infantry and your units will get instantly destroyed before they can even get in range. Vetted obers are literally impossible to deal with unless you have an armor advantage.

I honestly don't know what to do.

If I don't win by 5 min mark ( which is impossible with new volks vs a competent player), there are two problems.

1. I go LMG doctrine so rifles aren't useless vs vet 5 infantry but I lack any real armor to end the game

or

2. I go pershing/easy 8 and my rifles are useless late game ( and rangers)

Hovering around rank 250 as americans atm. Played only 2 ostheer at super bad ranks and only OKW from then on

Hu? I think OKW is way too weak. KT arriving at 11 min? Sorry I think that it needs to arrive at 9 to beat an early stuart.

I agree, i dont get it anyway that allied fanboys are crying so load again after a little okw buff.
But i think the buff was not enough, maybe increase OKW ressource income to 200%? and to compensate this make kingtiger starting unit maybe?

Hey I'm just enjoying the piggyback as Wehr in 2's at the moment..

I agree, i dont get it anyway that allied fanboys are crying so load again after a little okw buff.
But i think the buff was not enough, maybe increase OKW ressource income to 200%? and to compensate this make kingtiger starting unit maybe?

Lol that seems very fair to me man. And maybe buff the KT? Cause if it's a starting unit, it needs to be able to cap points right?!

I've been using the new Tactical Support commander to spread the word of freedom. 3 Rifles>LT>50cal>Captain, as soon as I hit 3 CP I call in the M5 and upgrade with quad-mount. Upgrade Rifles/Echelons with 1919s as I get munis available. Use the AT gun+Captain to keep Luchs at bay, and for any other light vehicles just slaughter the little bastard with your Quad.

From there I typically get an AT gun+pack howie, and tech major for Jacksons. The biggest thing at this point is to pull your quad crew and stick it in that first Jackson. My best game gave me an almost vet 3 Jackson right out the gate, average somewhere around 1 1/2 vet level. After 2nd Jackson if the Nazi's still haven't had enough Freedom delivered, I'll save fuel for a Calliope.

I've been using the new Tactical Support commander to spread the word of freedom. 3 Rifles>LT>50cal>Captain, as soon as I hit 3 CP I call in the M5 and upgrade with quad-mount. Upgrade Rifles/Echelons with 1919s as I get munis available. Use the AT gun+Captain to keep Luchs at bay, and for any other light vehicles just slaughter the little bastard with your Quad.

From there I typically get an AT gun+pack howie, and tech major for Jacksons. The biggest thing at this point is to pull your quad crew and stick it in that first Jackson. My best game gave me an almost vet 3 Jackson right out the gate, average somewhere around 1 1/2 vet level. After 2nd Jackson if the Nazi's still haven't had enough Freedom delivered, I'll save fuel for a Calliope.

I like this. I often forget to swap out vehicle crews in the heat of battle but getting the AP rounds right off the bat is awesome. Kudos.

Does anyone know if the M5 is a direct Soviet Copy/Paste? When I tried it out it seemed to me like the Suppression was weaker than the Soviet version but it might of been in my head. (Or I was just still jaded from finding out that the Strafing Run is an over priced piece of pudding.)