-Those MOBA are designed on it's basis as team oriented 5v5. While RTS can be designed with this intention (look at the last F2P (?) from Total War series), this is not the case for CoH. Look at maps, look at capping and resource system, see tech progression.
Honestly, these are literally all of the problems with team games vs. 1v1. They fix up these, the distinctions between the modes would just be more players and different commanders' synergies/spamming commanders.
Relic must act !!! OKW need tone down & Brtis need buffs
7 Dec 2015, 02:33 AM
#61
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
7 Dec 2015, 04:00 AM
#62
Posts: 14
King Tiger before 13 Min. mark. My friends and I always try to play what ever side is on the wrong side of a patch but this is too much. I honesty don't think the ppl. at relic play their own game.
7 Dec 2015, 07:28 AM
#64
Posts: 246
King Tiger before 13 Min. mark. My friends and I always try to play what ever side is on the wrong side of a patch but this is too much. I honesty don't think the ppl. at relic play their own game.
Sorry, but one screenshot alone does not prove anything. Besides, you only have 1 ATG, 1 engie, 2 cons a 1x guards at the 13min mark? From this screenshot it looks like they completely outplayed you long before the KT arrived.
7 Dec 2015, 07:32 AM
#65
Posts: 246
Basically, there are 2 reasons for the actual salty forums:
1. OKW plays differently now, but people try to fight the "old" OKW (they don't change their BOs at all). Obviously won't work.
2. ELO-inflation due to easy wins as allies in the past months. People are rated too high now, things will settle in the next few weeks.
Try to adapt, we'll see in a few weeks where OKW actually is.
1. OKW plays differently now, but people try to fight the "old" OKW (they don't change their BOs at all). Obviously won't work.
2. ELO-inflation due to easy wins as allies in the past months. People are rated too high now, things will settle in the next few weeks.
Try to adapt, we'll see in a few weeks where OKW actually is.
7 Dec 2015, 08:27 AM
#66
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
There is two reasons for this so called RANT. First, I am sick of getting ignored by Relic (justified or not due to lack of manpower resources)and this COH2.ORG community as whole.
There are glaring problems in 3v3+ that are like the old Opel Blitz. Remember that? an inevitably fixed glaring balance issue that affected only non 1v1. That took more than half a year to fix. But instead now, the new glaring problems are taking more than a year to be fixed or not even going to be fixed in the future.
The second reason for this rant is that the community as whole, especially those so called elite 1v1 players who has the most say think this is just fine. Just par for the course. Not 1v1, not interested. Team games are for fun and go fuck off if you don't got the balls to play the real mode. It not my mode, who the fuck cares about it.
Haven't even played a real 3v3+ match where you throw a grenade and slide over 500m to reverse order the jacksons you ordered to move up just a second ago while keeping your ears open for katty/stuka/werfer while remembering where numerous mines your teammate has discovered but could not sweep. The game where you had to coordinate 4 armies to kill hordes of churchill, jacksons or JT, KT etc etc. Nope, I played 1v1 and fuck it if I care, 3v3+ scrubs, I am coming, jump into the fuckin icy river and kill yourself in shame because you don't play 1v1.
----------------------------------
1. first glaring issue, forward retreat base. I don't want to be partisan here but OKW Forward Retreat Point is especially cancerous. it is hilarious that they can get it up so early into the game and maybe in 1v1 it might shave 20 seconds off retreat most of the time, in 3v3+, shaving of more than a minute of retreat time is fuckin given. To take it down early, allies invest into weak light arty early game, which means less mainline and if that serious commitment to take down the FRP does not work, you know because he is back on the field in 30 seconds while for you it takes 2 minutes? flak is already up.
not to say other FRP are good. but they come later and seriously, if you can not counter allies FRP with "wipe machines" so called walking stuka or panzerwerfer, you are a fuckin idiot.
FRPs promote blobbing and mass retreat, and removes one of the tactical essence of coh2: TIME. when Yoink said it in SNF4, he was absolutely right. Time is a fuckin resource and if you made your opponent retreat, you earned it. Now, you get a fuckin slap in the face for reward because the same blob returns 20 seconds later.
2. Whoever has late game wins usually. Well, now OPKW has early-mid-AND late game but... For eternity, Axis been wiping the fuckin floor in 3v3+ and since TBF release and last patch cycle, suddenly with rifle/con buff plus brit turned the table upside fuckin down? I wonder why.
others, I will not mention because they seems more personal or not particularly 3v3 exclusive as in OPkw in general, current popcap "bug", etc etc.
There are glaring problems in 3v3+ that are like the old Opel Blitz. Remember that? an inevitably fixed glaring balance issue that affected only non 1v1. That took more than half a year to fix. But instead now, the new glaring problems are taking more than a year to be fixed or not even going to be fixed in the future.
The second reason for this rant is that the community as whole, especially those so called elite 1v1 players who has the most say think this is just fine. Just par for the course. Not 1v1, not interested. Team games are for fun and go fuck off if you don't got the balls to play the real mode. It not my mode, who the fuck cares about it.
Haven't even played a real 3v3+ match where you throw a grenade and slide over 500m to reverse order the jacksons you ordered to move up just a second ago while keeping your ears open for katty/stuka/werfer while remembering where numerous mines your teammate has discovered but could not sweep. The game where you had to coordinate 4 armies to kill hordes of churchill, jacksons or JT, KT etc etc. Nope, I played 1v1 and fuck it if I care, 3v3+ scrubs, I am coming, jump into the fuckin icy river and kill yourself in shame because you don't play 1v1.
----------------------------------
1. first glaring issue, forward retreat base. I don't want to be partisan here but OKW Forward Retreat Point is especially cancerous. it is hilarious that they can get it up so early into the game and maybe in 1v1 it might shave 20 seconds off retreat most of the time, in 3v3+, shaving of more than a minute of retreat time is fuckin given. To take it down early, allies invest into weak light arty early game, which means less mainline and if that serious commitment to take down the FRP does not work, you know because he is back on the field in 30 seconds while for you it takes 2 minutes? flak is already up.
not to say other FRP are good. but they come later and seriously, if you can not counter allies FRP with "wipe machines" so called walking stuka or panzerwerfer, you are a fuckin idiot.
FRPs promote blobbing and mass retreat, and removes one of the tactical essence of coh2: TIME. when Yoink said it in SNF4, he was absolutely right. Time is a fuckin resource and if you made your opponent retreat, you earned it. Now, you get a fuckin slap in the face for reward because the same blob returns 20 seconds later.
2. Whoever has late game wins usually. Well, now OPKW has early-mid-AND late game but... For eternity, Axis been wiping the fuckin floor in 3v3+ and since TBF release and last patch cycle, suddenly with rifle/con buff plus brit turned the table upside fuckin down? I wonder why.
others, I will not mention because they seems more personal or not particularly 3v3 exclusive as in OPkw in general, current popcap "bug", etc etc.
 | Playercard of Bo-Bobby Lion | |||||||||||||||
|
7 Dec 2015, 08:41 AM
#67
Posts: 2819
Sorry, but one screenshot alone does not prove anything. Besides, you only have 1 ATG, 1 engie, 2 cons a 1x guards at the 13min mark? From this screenshot it looks like they completely outplayed you long before the KT arrived.
1 screenshot does not prove much, but it actually proves you CAN get a KT before 13 min mark.
This fact on it's own is crazy, regardless whether you played bad or whatever.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
7 Dec 2015, 08:46 AM
#68
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
The problem with the vocal 4v4 majority, is that they are casuals who don't know shit about balance. Every time something is changed they spam a hundred threads demanding massive nerfs and buffs. They never try to play differently, it is always: "My strat doesn't work anymore the game is broken." 5 minutes after a patch is released. Metas take weeks to develop, that is why Relic lets patches sit for two-three months before the next one dedicated to balance. The next patch(in January) will probably be for hotfixes for anything that is still blatantly OP and bug fixes and maybe optimization.
+ 1000. Good one sir.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
7 Dec 2015, 09:07 AM
#69
Posts: 111
+ 1000. Good one sir.
I would think the most played game-type would be the most important, but I guess this is bizarroland.
7 Dec 2015, 09:11 AM
#70
Posts: 301
1. first glaring issue, forward retreat base. I don't want to be partisan here but OKW Forward Retreat Point is especially cancerous. it is hilarious that they can get it up so early into the game and maybe in 1v1 it might shave 20 seconds off retreat most of the time, in 3v3+, shaving of more than a minute of retreat time is fuckin given. To take it down early, allies invest into weak light arty early game, which means less mainline and if that serious commitment to take down the FRP does not work, you know because he is back on the field in 30 seconds while for you it takes 2 minutes? flak is already up.
Hello.
While i do agree that OKW FRP is strong you offset the fact that it has a cost, 300MP, which is a whole squad less, which can be painful earlygame. Correct me if i am wrong, but as an opponent you can invest into a counter (which equalise on both sides) or get your excedent squad and negate your opponent's time-advantage by having a superior firepower. Seems fair after all. Not to mention the eternal "yes but the okw is taking a risk by exposing his truck and a loss is painfull".
That said, this last argument is less valid thant before. Now it costs 300MP and 35 fuel to rebuild a medic truck (and a certain build time). Something that was much more painful before as it was more expensive and you couldn't control the repop of the missing truck and sometimes had to wait for hours to get a new one.
For me the true advantage of the meditruck lies in the "slow-retreat" rather than in the retreat point.
Kozo.
...For conflict is the great teacher,
and pain... the perfect educator...
and pain... the perfect educator...
7 Dec 2015, 09:52 AM
#71
Posts: 25
4v4 pays the bills, the 1v1 players need to realize that their niche little game mode is largely irrelevant. If Relic doesnt balance for 4v4, the game will die.
7 Dec 2015, 10:23 AM
#72
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Everybody and especialy Relic must understand that balancing 3v3 and 4v4 it's not about a faction performance, but how the synergy between allied or axis factions work. If you change a faction by nerfing/buffing individual units or such, you will obtain balance, or something close to it, for small game modes. If you change the way the factions work together, you are challenging the real problem that this thread is about.
As a short example, the change related to Opel Blitz, which provided resources for all allied players. I am not implying that was a good change or a bad change, but it definetly affected the way axis factions were working together.
I am not a balance expert, so I can't point out the problem exactly, but I am pretty sure that it's about what I wrote above.
Maybe the should change how the received income from caches works?
Dunno. But I will certainly not mess up the 1v1 and 2v2 balance just to balance 3v3s and 4v4s. It won't be fair.
As a short example, the change related to Opel Blitz, which provided resources for all allied players. I am not implying that was a good change or a bad change, but it definetly affected the way axis factions were working together.
I am not a balance expert, so I can't point out the problem exactly, but I am pretty sure that it's about what I wrote above.
Maybe the should change how the received income from caches works?
Dunno. But I will certainly not mess up the 1v1 and 2v2 balance just to balance 3v3s and 4v4s. It won't be fair.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
7 Dec 2015, 10:43 AM
#73
2 
Posts: 1108
4v4 pays the bills, the 1v1 players need to realize that their niche little game mode is largely irrelevant. If Relic doesnt balance for 4v4, the game will die.
yeah because all the high priced tournaments with all the viewers are uninterested and irrelevant(SNF,OCF etc.). Those "niche little game mode" got the most viewers in fact
| Playercard of MoerserKarL | |||||||||||||||||||
|
7 Dec 2015, 11:32 AM
#74
Posts: 353
volk need nerf something
Kar98K dmg
Reforce Cost
passive Acc
i hope relic do something
ps and Volk is starter unit ?
Kar98K dmg
Reforce Cost
passive Acc
i hope relic do something
ps and Volk is starter unit ?
7 Dec 2015, 18:28 PM
#75
Posts: 2070
man pigsoup is spot on
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
7 Dec 2015, 18:33 PM
#76
Posts: 976
+100 Pigsoup !
VoltarDark
Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
8 Dec 2015, 01:34 AM
#77
Posts: 92
There is two reasons for this so called RANT. First, I am sick of getting ignored by Relic (justified or not due to lack of manpower resources)and this COH2.ORG community as whole.
There are glaring problems in 3v3+ that are like the old Opel Blitz. Remember that? an inevitably fixed glaring balance issue that affected only non 1v1. That took more than half a year to fix. But instead now, the new glaring problems are taking more than a year to be fixed or not even going to be fixed in the future.
The second reason for this rant is that the community as whole, especially those so called elite 1v1 players who has the most say think this is just fine. Just par for the course. Not 1v1, not interested. Team games are for fun and go fuck off if you don't got the balls to play the real mode. It not my mode, who the fuck cares about it.
Haven't even played a real 3v3+ match where you throw a grenade and slide over 500m to reverse order the jacksons you ordered to move up just a second ago while keeping your ears open for katty/stuka/werfer while remembering where numerous mines your teammate has discovered but could not sweep. The game where you had to coordinate 4 armies to kill hordes of churchill, jacksons or JT, KT etc etc. Nope, I played 1v1 and fuck it if I care, 3v3+ scrubs, I am coming, jump into the fuckin icy river and kill yourself in shame because you don't play 1v1.
----------------------------------
1. first glaring issue, forward retreat base. I don't want to be partisan here but OKW Forward Retreat Point is especially cancerous. it is hilarious that they can get it up so early into the game and maybe in 1v1 it might shave 20 seconds off retreat most of the time, in 3v3+, shaving of more than a minute of retreat time is fuckin given. To take it down early, allies invest into weak light arty early game, which means less mainline and if that serious commitment to take down the FRP does not work, you know because he is back on the field in 30 seconds while for you it takes 2 minutes? flak is already up.
not to say other FRP are good. but they come later and seriously, if you can not counter allies FRP with "wipe machines" so called walking stuka or panzerwerfer, you are a fuckin idiot.
FRPs promote blobbing and mass retreat, and removes one of the tactical essence of coh2: TIME. when Yoink said it in SNF4, he was absolutely right. Time is a fuckin resource and if you made your opponent retreat, you earned it. Now, you get a fuckin slap in the face for reward because the same blob returns 20 seconds later.
2. Whoever has late game wins usually. Well, now OPKW has early-mid-AND late game but... For eternity, Axis been wiping the fuckin floor in 3v3+ and since TBF release and last patch cycle, suddenly with rifle/con buff plus brit turned the table upside fuckin down? I wonder why.
others, I will not mention because they seems more personal or not particularly 3v3 exclusive as in OPkw in general, current popcap "bug", etc etc.
You also forget the free fixins that the mech truck doles out to the tanks you've lost half of your army almost killing. That's nearly as bad as the forward retreat- just as frustrating.
8 Dec 2015, 03:46 AM
#78
Posts: 19
GD you relic. You rekt the balance and the whole GD game and you know it. So GD incompetent. It's ridiculous the community knows the game better than you. Hotfix the GD overpowered OKW BS or all your fans are GONE!
8 Dec 2015, 03:58 AM
#79
Posts: 111
GD you relic. You rekt the balance and the whole GD game and you know it. So GD incompetent. It's ridiculous the community knows the game better than you. Hotfix the GD overpowered OKW BS or all your fans are GONE!
That's a bold statement to make m8. I had no idea you spoke for the entire community.
The patch JUST happened, people need to stfu and give it a week or two.
8 Dec 2015, 04:07 AM
#80
Posts: 19
Relic literally, my losing streak is ridiculous. Seriously, fix your GD game! Put the F'ing OKW resources back or raise their unit cost.
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