The guys I play with and I have been musing lately about how we wish we could tech as USF without being forced to use the lieutenant or captain
Keep the cost of the tech, but don't tie it to the LT/CPT. Instead, maybe make them free for first purchase after teching. Or, you can make them pop up on the commander bar for a 1-time summon of a LT/CPT for free
Anyone else agree?
I'd like to tech as USF without getting Cpt or Lt
3 Dec 2015, 01:27 AM
#1
Posts: 692
3 Dec 2015, 02:09 AM
#2
Posts: 372
It would be nice to not have units you don't want taking up popcap.
3 Dec 2015, 02:18 AM
#3
8 Posts: 2470
well, seeing as it improves options without making any balance changes other than not forcing popcap for teching i can't say i'm against it.
3 Dec 2015, 02:25 AM
#4
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
well, seeing as it improves options without making any balance changes other than not forcing popcap for teching i can't say i'm against it.
I do kinda like how it tips the hand of the USF player though, which makes it a bit more involved for everyone in the game than "FREE UNIT!". Making it optional whenever kinda really just makes it "FREE UNIT!".
3 Dec 2015, 02:35 AM
#5
8 Posts: 2470
I do kinda like how it tips the hand of the USF player though, which makes it a bit more involved for everyone in the game than "FREE UNIT!". Making it optional whenever kinda really just makes it "FREE UNIT!".
that's true but currently USF are the only faction who are actually hurt by teching. i think their teching is dumb in general (the whole thing) but i really don't think they should be potentially hurt by teaching.
3 Dec 2015, 02:49 AM
#6
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Yeah, I suppose I can agree with basically everything you said. Not the end of it from there for sure, but I suppose this is indeed a logical step for the matter.
that's true but currently USF are the only faction who are actually hurt by teching. i think their teching is dumb in general (the whole thing) but i really don't think they should be potentially hurt by teaching.
3 Dec 2015, 02:53 AM
#7
8 Posts: 2470
Yeah, I suppose I can agree with basically everything you said. Not the end of it from there for sure, but I suppose this is indeed a logical step for the matter.
relic has a lot of cool ideas but the execution has been pretty bad with coh2. for the vanilla factions that's obviously because of the whole THQ bankruptcy mess but WFA has some pretty strong issues as well with the basic faction designs. brits are much more well rounded.
3 Dec 2015, 02:55 AM
#8
Posts: 836 | Subs: 5
that's true but currently USF are the only faction who are actually hurt by teching. i think their teching is dumb in general (the whole thing) but i really don't think they should be potentially hurt by teaching.
I fail to see how getting a free squad makes usf the only faction to be hurt by teching.
The whole reason usf has been bar none the best 1v1 faction for a long time is because the LT is essentially a free rifle squad with a free bar, which is why you never need to build more than 3 rifles. USFs insane early game is partly because of the overwhelming presence that 3 rifles, an LT, and an M20 have in less than 8 minutes.
Captain too becomes valuable, especially with buffed bazookas.
I can agree that making the officers optional would be cool, but having them essentially free now is in absolutely no way a weakness of usf teching.
 | Playercard of Dusty | |||||||||||||||
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Devils_Brigade: man captain molo why dont you just buy and m3 drive that around instead of playing coh
3 Dec 2015, 03:05 AM
#9
Posts: 1891
LT is actually better at killing infantry than Rifles, amirite? Better scaling, slightly cheaper upkeep, and better vet?
The Fascisti Will Pay.
3 Dec 2015, 03:06 AM
#10
4 Posts: 474
I like how the core tenant of this problem revolves around popcap and units taking up too much space in the army.
I imagine if the game had lowered the popcap by the division of 2 for every unit. There would be a lot more different strategies and plays being used without having to dwelve into the 'popcap' problem.
I imagine if the game had lowered the popcap by the division of 2 for every unit. There would be a lot more different strategies and plays being used without having to dwelve into the 'popcap' problem.
3 Dec 2015, 03:23 AM
#11
Posts: 253
These reply's remind me of another thread long ago where people were trying to argue that vehicle crews were a downside in the USF faction, as if spawning an engineer unit right next to your now neutral tank was terrible.
Ill go look for that thread.
Ill go look for that thread.
3 Dec 2015, 05:33 AM
#12
Posts: 320
You could always get them down to 1 man and never reinforce them again? Get a free squad you can almost throw away.
3 Dec 2015, 07:06 AM
#13
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
I agree with Dusty, Lt and Captain are both rather useful and I don't really see why you wouldn't want them.
Heck, I'll often buy a 2nd Lt. if he dies because 300 MP for a Free BAR squad is a rather good deal in my opinion. Captain is great if you need to ambush a Kubel who doesn't know Captain is out yet or need soft AT fast (not to mention On Me! and Supervise which are both woefully underused but comes in handy).
The only way they suck is their stupid 50 MP reinforce cost on the Officer model for no apparent reason. (And the Lt/Captain model always seems to die first)
Heck, I'll often buy a 2nd Lt. if he dies because 300 MP for a Free BAR squad is a rather good deal in my opinion. Captain is great if you need to ambush a Kubel who doesn't know Captain is out yet or need soft AT fast (not to mention On Me! and Supervise which are both woefully underused but comes in handy).
The only way they suck is their stupid 50 MP reinforce cost on the Officer model for no apparent reason. (And the Lt/Captain model always seems to die first)
3 Dec 2015, 07:11 AM
#14
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
The only way they suck is their stupid 50 MP reinforce cost on the Officer model for no apparent reason. (And the Lt/Captain model always seems to die first)
I wouldn't disagree with standardizing their cost with the rest of the squad. Even the rare Ostheer artillery officer only costs as much as a gren, although, he's much worse than them compared to any of them and if he dies, all the squad's abilities get locked out which I don't think applies to the Captain, could be wrong. But hey, at least him and his squad are dirt cheap compared to a single officer.
Officers could also do with probably being in the rear of the squad and stop leading by example where they get focused downed first taking away the SMG.
3 Dec 2015, 07:41 AM
#15
Posts: 174
I agree with Dusty, Lt and Captain are both rather useful and I don't really see why you wouldn't want them.
Heck, I'll often buy a 2nd Lt. if he dies because 300 MP for a Free BAR squad is a rather good deal in my opinion. Captain is great if you need to ambush a Kubel who doesn't know Captain is out yet or need soft AT fast (not to mention On Me! and Supervise which are both woefully underused but comes in handy).
The only way they suck is their stupid 50 MP reinforce cost on the Officer model for no apparent reason. (And the Lt/Captain model always seems to die first)
I swear the Captain model must throw himself in front of enemy bullets to save his men. All I want him to do is get close and shred a bit w/ his Thompson, but that never seems to happen.
I agree with others who have said this thread makes no sense. LT and CPT are great units. Even if you "don't want them," they in no way hurt USF but absolutely complement the faction's very strong early and mid-game. Captain + Stuart in particular is an incredible duo w/ Captain keeping the Puma at bay and Stuart sniping infantry.
What even is the argument here? Is it really just about pop cap? Who has problems w/ USF pop cap? Most 1v1's you won't sniff 100/100 and even if you do, just decrew your vehicles and soar over the limit. This is the intended, Relic approved, eSports ready design of USF.
3 Dec 2015, 08:56 AM
#16
8 Posts: 2470
I fail to see how getting a free squad makes usf the only faction to be hurt by teching.
The whole reason usf has been bar none the best 1v1 faction for a long time is because the LT is essentially a free rifle squad with a free bar, which is why you never need to build more than 3 rifles. USFs insane early game is partly because of the overwhelming presence that 3 rifles, an LT, and an M20 have in less than 8 minutes.
Captain too becomes valuable, especially with buffed bazookas.
I can agree that making the officers optional would be cool, but having them essentially free now is in absolutely no way a weakness of usf teching.
the pop cap from the squad. it's not a net negative but it's a negative. no one else has anything negative from techig, OKH and USSR just don't get anything directly.
These reply's remind me of another thread long ago where people were trying to argue that vehicle crews were a downside in the USF faction, as if spawning an engineer unit right next to your now neutral tank was terrible.
Ill go look for that thread.
well when the flip side of those engineers is that you don't get anything heavier than a sherman ad eve with doctrines you don't get anything better than a Pershing (which doesn't have those crew members for a very good reason), yeah, it's negative. there's nothing bad about the ability itself though.
3 Dec 2015, 08:59 AM
#17
Posts: 708 | Subs: 1
LT is actually better at killing infantry than Rifles, amirite? Better scaling, slightly cheaper upkeep, and better vet?
Only difference is one rifle replaced with tompson. Worse at long range, better at close range.
3 Dec 2015, 12:10 PM
#18
Posts: 28
no one else has anything negative from techig [...]
Tell that to the poor engies / pios that have to retreat to your base to build tier structures.
On a side note: I don't see how a free squad can ever be seen as a negative thing. If you don't like it, suicide rush it.
3 Dec 2015, 12:35 PM
#19
Posts: 168
The guys I play with and I have been musing lately about how we wish we could tech as USF without being forced to use the lieutenant or captain
Keep the cost of the tech, but don't tie it to the LT/CPT. Instead, maybe make them free for first purchase after teching. Or, you can make them pop up on the commander bar for a 1-time summon of a LT/CPT for free
Anyone else agree?
i donno you get free wepons :\ 2 zooks saves me allot in 1 v 1 when german player rush me with 222
but from the ather side most of the time he is useless in fightings so i send him to cap points
dont you think usf need a buf ?
armore is shit pershing isant so baddass
usf is facing the hardest tanks so why this shit ATG ?
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