OKW Vet 5 justified (December Update)?

STILL lowest tech costs with benefits and no side upgrades(free medics, free repair crew, free AA gun) are much bigger issue then vet5.

Agreeing with katitof lol

WHY cannot be all balance threads banned until patch will be live at least 1-2 weeks ?

Then many will realise how to counter what , what is OP what not and not so many units will be overnerfed / overbuffed.

Again this is really not true. Units regularly receive vet 4 and 5.

Well, you play mostly big team games, so I understand why you have this opinion. But in 1v1s (which I play most of the time), reaching vet4/5 never happens for vehicles and almost never for infantry other than Volks (and maybe Füsiliere, but I haven't used them for a long time). Also, there is nobody to build caches for you, so OKW still has fewer resources in 1v1s.

Obviously, the vet5 system is a problematic design decision, as it has different impacts in different game modes. IMO:
- either make vet5 superior to vet3 and achievable in every game mode but limit OKW in another way (like others mentioned: unlock the ability through extra tech, lock most units in tech buildings behind a separate unlock for each unit locked so you need a plan which units you will need in the match, or whatever you can think of)
- or give OKW vet3 with a comparable bonus to the other armies and give them caches if needed


Regarding Luchs: I haven't played as Brits yet so I don't know their exact timings, but US and Soviets can build AT-Guns, mines and/or handheld AT weapons before the Luchs hits the field (Soviets even without delaying their T70, which wins against the Luchs). Even in case it is OP, it is not as OP as people try to make it. Don't forget: OH has to fight light armor without light armor but with AT-Guns, mines and/or handheld AT weapons. So I don't see why allies will not be able to so.


But whatever, we'll see in the next few weeks, so everybody relax

OKW T2 is expensive now and T4 delayed quite significantly.

Wait...this is simply not true. At release vet 0 Obers were insane, they even had bonuses against retreating units.

At release everything were insane, lieutenant with unnerfed thompson in unnerfed wc51 most of them all. I were speaking about nerf in a patch where obers got 25% DPS reduction on top of need to purchase lmgs after 6 mounts of OKW dominance.

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And volks lose every engagement one on one against allied infantry (idk how it would be in upcoming patch tho), which makes them bad outside of hardcore blobbing. Then upgrades come into play and volks start losing two against one and becoming nothing but cannon folder (which have it uses still, but at that point they can engage only engineers... and enemy tanks, lol).

Plus you comparison excludes most blatant examples like Pershing -50% reload at vet 3 compared to awful kt vet levels or 2 levels of obers vet (1 and 5) which does absolutely nothing but unlocks abilities and one level of vet which reduces damage via suppression (i am not saying suppression is bad, but sometimes you want to kill enemy squads instead of suppressing them). Those levels are basically itching on the cake, which is nice additions to 3 levels of useful vet, but totally not worth entire vet levels.

I can also argue on quickest vet, in my book nothing vets quicker than starting inf with rushed weapon upgrades aka tommies, grens and rifles.

So, most of OKW vet 5 is nothing special and some of it is really bad. And now we come to the ugliest part of op vet like jp4 (on top of possibility to spam predator recloak on vet 5 to have this stupid 2.5x damage bonus with every shot), which should be nerfed without question.

I am sure there would be more op examples to come since changes were huge, but none of them cant be solved with some numbers adjustments.

@Jadame are you gonna argue that sprint and cancer nades are bad vet abilities ?

PD: JPIV is x2.5 damage at vet 5

PD2: the -50% reload at vet3 is stupid but it also doesn't gain anything remarkable at vet2 or vet1. (I'll rather have manual nades than automatic ones)

Well, you play mostly big team games, so I understand why you have this opinion. But in 1v1s (which I play most of the time), reaching vet4/5 never happens for vehicles and almost never for infantry other than Volks (and maybe Füsiliere, but I haven't used them for a long time). Also, there is nobody to build caches for you, so OKW still has fewer resources in 1v1s.

Obviously, the vet5 system is a problematic design decision, as it has different impacts in different game modes. IMO:
- either make vet5 superior to vet3 and achievable in every game mode but limit OKW in another way (like others mentioned: unlock the ability through extra tech, lock most units in tech buildings behind a separate unlock for each unit locked so you need a plan which units you will need in the match, or whatever you can think of)
- or give OKW vet3 with a comparable bonus to the other armies and give them caches if needed


Regarding Luchs: I haven't played as Brits yet so I don't know their exact timings, but US and Soviets can build AT-Guns, mines and/or handheld AT weapons before the Luchs hits the field (Soviets even without delaying their T70, which wins against the Luchs). Even in case it is OP, it is not as OP as people try to make it. Don't forget: OH has to fight light armor without light armor but with AT-Guns, mines and/or handheld AT weapons. So I don't see why allies will not be able to so.


But whatever, we'll see in the next few weeks, so everybody relax

Fair enough. Keep in mind more than half the population plays games larger than 1v1. About half play 3v3 and 4v4, so saying its rare in one game type but common in another tough luck, is really not effective at retaining player base.

All the handheld AT you refer to (excluding guards) requires a fuel upgrade, slowing your tech. Guards struggle against Luchs because it can move so quickly, can push them, and their aim time is so long the tank is not likely to ever be in any real danger. In larger games 2 Luchs in one place on the map will be nearly impossible to stop early game. To deal with them you need to invest fuel, slowing your rush to T70's. While the OKW player can still be picking up heavy AT (shreks) without fuel, and moving along to P4 or Panthers. If you then sink your first fuel into T70 your opponent can pick up a Puma to make your life nearly unbearable. You can never push to finish off a Luchs because of cloaked Rakentens, and the huge amounts of Shreks.

Having tried the patch, the power of the OKW is vastly increased with few additional costs. No one has yet explained to me why OKW should receive, free healing, nades, repair stations, area-denial cannon for free, to list just a few.

And volks lose every engagement one on one against allied infantry (idk how it would be in upcoming patch tho), which makes them bad outside of hardcore blobbing. Then upgrades come into play and volks start losing two against one and becoming nothing but cannon folder (which have it uses still, but at that point they can engage only engineers... and enemy tanks, lol).

Plus you comparison excludes most blatant examples like Pershing -50% reload at vet 3 compared to awful kt vet levels or 2 levels of obers vet (1 and 5) which does absolutely nothing but unlocks abilities and one level of vet which reduces damage via suppression (i am not saying suppression is bad, but sometimes you want to kill enemy squads instead of suppressing them). Those levels are basically itching on the cake, which is nice additions to 3 levels of useful vet, but totally not worth entire vet levels.

I can also argue on quickest vet, in my book nothing vets quicker than starting inf with rushed weapon upgrades aka tommies, grens and rifles.

So, most of OKW vet 5 is nothing special and some of it is really bad. And now we come to the ugliest part of op vet like jp4 (on top of possibility to spam predator recloak on vet 5 to have this stupid 1.5x damage bonus with every shot), which should be nerfed without question.

I am sure there would be more op examples to come since changes were huge, but none of them cant be solved with some numbers adjustments.

The quote on volks literally says cannon-fodder, isn't that their intended role?

Also are you saying Allied vet is straight better, because almost every Soviet vehicle would like to have a quick word, just as an example.

The quote on volks literally says cannon-fodder, isn't that their intended role?

It could be their indented role if OKW actually had elite infantry which not get gardened by RNG.

Also are you saying Allied vet is straight better, because almost every Soviet vehicle would like to have a quick word, just as an example.

Insane kat scatter reduction from scatter bonus and range increase? Rapid firing su85? Ofc, most of them are bad, but, you know, soviets not exactly vet-empathized faction.

Jadame are you gonna argue that sprint and cancer nades are bad vet abilities ?

As only bonuses from entire vet levels they are unsatisfying, to say at least. Same thing with commandos without combat vet.

As only bonuses from entire vet levels they are unsatisfying, to say at least. Same thing with commandos without combat vet.

You could argue the power level of vet5 passive sprint but cancer nades are on the upper side of vet1 abilities across all factions.

I wonder if the possibility of another tier might fix some of the complaints in this thread. Increase costs for some of the stronger tanks. As well as a worry of ive heard of all the tanks being in a headquarters okw commonly build to hold ground. Guess okw just doesn't have enough to spread to 4 buildings.