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inefficiency of panthers

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MoerserKarL
29 Nov 2015, 10:41 AM
#81
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Posts: 1108

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2015, 04:28 AMbicho1

Because panthers are op !!!
panther is simply better then pershing and commet when it comes to 1v1
Perfect tank fast tanky no penetration allowed ...
Poor pershing its a heavy tank much more expensive and still losing 1 v1
Same with commet



The pershing is a better "allround" tank and the comet as well. The panther however a better AT-tank and not OP. They are simply in a good spot.













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1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P


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Australian Magic
29 Nov 2015, 10:43 AM
#82
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

There are some UP and OP units.

There are also units in perfect spot. Panther is one of them, but since it's not OP, people consider that it's "inefficient", well, it's not, it's perfectly OK.
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bicho1
29 Nov 2015, 14:02 PM
#83
avatar of bicho1

Posts: 168

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2015, 10:43 AMAustralian Magic
There are some UP and OP units.

There are also units in perfect spot. Panther is one of them, but since it's not OP, people consider that it's "inefficient", well, it's not, it's perfectly OK.


you are so right about "There are some UP and OP units"
for exemple this patch rifelman with flame + 2 howzers it can be op
every faction have here unballanced units its so annoying ...
and some stuff compared to the op stuf is just UP
makes the game really annoying



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bicho1
29 Nov 2015, 14:09 PM
#84
avatar of bicho1

Posts: 168

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2015, 10:41 AMMoerserKarL



The pershing is a better "allround" tank and the comet as well. The panther however a better AT-tank and not OP. They are simply in a good spot.



for this game its a perfect tank tanky good vs tanks and can be a nice wepon vs foot troops :P perfect

tiger is even better good vs foot troops + good vs tanks

why a pershing for 600 mp and 200 fuel cant win a panther [tiger is 640mp 230 fuel ] .
befor his release relic told it will be kind of a tank hunter too .

you can cheak 2 stugs thet are pretty cheap will still win a pershing ...

all aixe has good ANTI TANK[like shreks there perfect tanks and there ATG] vs usf with there paper tanks it makes them not so hard to destroy

but usf need to really sweat to kill a panther or a tiger
[jakson cant really deal with stugs with scopes !!!]
ATG will only fours the tank to go away
shermans will die trying and killing this panther
leaves me with a jekson :P \ e8
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bicho1
29 Nov 2015, 14:12 PM
#85
avatar of bicho1

Posts: 168

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2015, 14:09 PMbicho1


for this game its a perfect tank tanky good vs tanks and can be a nice wepon vs foot troops :P perfect

tiger is even better good vs foot troops + good vs tanks

why a pershing for 600 mp and 200 fuel cant win a panther [tiger is 640mp 230 fuel ] .
befor his release relic told it will be kind of a tank hunter too .

you can cheak 2 stugs thet are pretty cheap will still win a pershing ...

all aixe has good ANTI TANK [like shreks there perfect tanks and there ATG]vs usf with there paper tanks it makes them not so hard to destroy

but usf need to really sweat to kill a panther or a tiger
[jakson cant really deal with stugs with scopes !!!]
ATG will only fours the tank to go away
shermans will die trying and killing this panther
leaves me with a jekson :P \ e8
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atouba
1 Dec 2015, 16:07 PM
#86
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2015, 08:12 AMAradan


Panther rof 6,5 sec
Jackson rof 7,25 sec

Maybie I have old stats? Can you post something actual?

Reload time:
m36_m4_90mm_gun_mp 7.25
panther_75mm_mp 7.38
From http://stat.coh2.hu
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4v4: Pstreak: - 1with LIBIDO, [CHN]DarkTuzki, & LittleeStone
4v4: Pstreak: - 2with LIBIDO, [CHN]DarkTuzki, & LittleeStone


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elchino7
1 Dec 2015, 16:30 PM
#87
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Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Both values seems to be wrong:

Jackson: 7.375
-Reload: 5.2/5.8 avg 5.5
-Wind up/Wind down: 0.5/1.125
-Ready/Fire aim time: 0.125/0.125

Panther: 7.5
-Reload: 6.1/6.4 avg 6.25
-Wind up/Wind down: 0/1.0
-Ready/Fire aim time: 0.125/0.125
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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donutrock
1 Dec 2015, 19:06 PM
#88
avatar of donutrock

Posts: 14

I believe there is no reason to build panthers as Ostheer, because of the value of the Stug and how the Ostheer is defensive oriented. It makes sense to me that I build a Stug to deter enemy light armor and medium armor. It also seems to have great timing to deal with those threats. Then it also makes sense to make a second one to back up the first Stug. Then I feel I need armor that can push and is good all round. That is the Panzer IV with Panzer IV command or a Tiger, role.
With this setup, It sets me up to play Ostheer defensively. When I defeat aggresive actions, I fortify and push up the front line. If I am overwhelmed, I fall back and prepare to quickly counterattack. Enemy heavy armor has a difficult time getting close to the Stugs with Panzer IVs or Tiger tanking the damage, and multiple medium tanks cannot get close if i have good mines on flanks and a frontal assault with mediums results with a enemy tank dead instantly. With how I play I do not need an expensive fast moving tank. When I do tech to T4 I usually build a Brumbar to deal with infantry blobs. The only reason I would build panthers is in the really late game after my armor died to enemy armor.
As the OKW, I like to get 2 panthers in the late game or a panther and KT. The panther is the quick tank needed to keep up with the infantry pushes. The KT is just pure fun or great sadness.
I do not know if the Panther needs buffing necessarily, it just does not fit in to how I play the Ostheer. The panther comes to late to deal with early medium armor, the Pak is a pain, and upgrading Panzergrenadiers weakens my assault ability. I could pick aggresive commanders and have a aggresive build order as Ostheer, but OKW exists and is exactly aggressive, so why?
I am not a top tier player and this is my 1 and a half cents from a "not the best" player.
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JohnnyB
2 Dec 2015, 09:02 AM
#89
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2015, 23:59 PMAradan


And for this reason nazi won the war.




I know who won the war :).

I just like teasing Katitof ;).
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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Iron Emperor
2 Dec 2015, 09:39 AM
#90
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Yesterday I played against GBPirate a 1v1. I went brits, he went Wehrmacht. I had to take 4 comets (3 of them were vet 3 at some point) to take out 1 vet 3 Panther. So the Panther is completely fine. Comet should get a small buff (25-30 penetration) so it can be a more serious threath to a panther.
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KoufromMizuchi
3 Dec 2015, 01:41 AM
#91
avatar of KoufromMizuchi

Posts: 172

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Dec 2015, 09:39 AMIron Emperor
Yesterday I played against GBPirate a 1v1. I went brits, he went Wehrmacht. I had to take 4 comets (3 of them were vet 3 at some point) to take out 1 vet 3 Panther. So the Panther is completely fine. Comet should get a small buff (25-30 penetration) so it can be a more serious threath to a panther.

If you get firefly, you get pen, range, and tulip. You don't get comet for reliable pen. Speed and firepower, being able to handle both armor and infantry is comet's power. Seriously, if you buff it, panther is good for what?
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KoufromMizuchi
3 Dec 2015, 01:58 AM
#92
avatar of KoufromMizuchi

Posts: 172

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2015, 10:24 AMKatitof


Historical arguments shouldn't apply if they are breaking balance.

Bit better accuracy on the move for allied armor with inferior stats, especially defensive ones and often lower penetration as well doesn't break the balance in any way, what it does on the other hand is applying historical flavor within the balance.

For the same reason P4 have better armor then T34/76.

You're so lost in the dark that you've confused me with realism seeking, mad zealots.

Now, surprise for you: con and gren squads are somewhat historically accurate as well, just historically these were 12 and 8 man squads, so you have lowere scale, but historical proportion of units. Will you jump on relic how they made this historically accurate as well?

And... is this thing matter to this discussion? You quoted me for spewing some historical stuff at balance thread. And no matter whatever historical stuff, game balance always can be far from reality. CoH2 already is far from history at several points. Unit design concept is from the history, but it is not able to do the same thing. You know and I know. You even said it before on other threads.
You are the one who is saying one thing before and saying different things later about something.
You aren't a mad zealot. You're a mad forum warrior.
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