Osttruppen > Grenadiers

grans >> ostrupen

So you build pzgrens because grens are a mp sink in your opinion? Well that's a risky theory as pzgrens are exactly the definition of mp sink in ostheer faction. They are good but situational, work only if in green cover before fight or enemy doesnt focus fire them. More than one squad is madness. On the other hand grens are much cheaper and have faust + rifle nade + same dps on long range with lmg. Whats more their damage doesnt drop as fast while they loose models. 2 model pgren squad is useless, 2 model gren squad can still deal a lot of damage.

Completely wrong.Panzergrenadiers wipe less,individual models are more difficult to kill.Use them with mg support and osttruppen in front and see for urself.They can actually wipe careless squads.

Grenadiers are constantly losing 30 mp to anything that even fires a breeze at it and wipe more consistently.CAN'T FIRE ON MOVE and useless assault troops.Use 3 pzgrens with bulletins and ost/mg42 support,you will be surprised how good they can be early-midgame.Even in lategame far better than grens.Pzgrens are NOT a munition sink.Why go for subpar fausts when i can invest in tellers?
If u see imperialdane's cats some players have already switched to pzgrens/ost,and thats in 1 vs 1.In 2vs 2 and above its used even more frequently.Sure they will struggle lategame vs lmg blobs vetted up,but grenadiers will struggle even worse and wipe left and right.

So you build pzgrens because grens are a mp sink in your opinion? Well that's a risky theory as pzgrens are exactly the definition of mp sink in ostheer faction. They are good but situational, work only if in green cover before fight or enemy doesnt focus fire them. More than one squad is madness. On the other hand grens are much cheaper and have faust + rifle nade + same dps on long range with lmg. Whats more their damage doesnt drop as fast while they loose models. 2 model pgren squad is useless, 2 model gren squad can still deal a lot of damage.

Another thing is that if using harder to hit bulletins,pzgrens at VET 2 get (-29% + -20% RE) -more than double the meagre -23% RE of a gren squad at VET 3.So in terms of model survivability pzgrens can stand upto to vetted rifles much better.And pzgrens do almost same dmg at long raneg as lmg grens,also if u charge pzgrens like u can LMG grens u'll likely get shredded(especially rifle flamers/commandoes),and they can attack on the move -being assault troops which grens are bad at -grens are horrible at meeting engagement and in constricted terrain.

If a osttruppen commander had tiger -you wouldn't see grens again.

Another thing is that if using harder to hit bulletins,pzgrens at VET 2 get (-29% + -20% RE) -more than double the meagre -23% RE of a gren squad at VET 3.So in terms of model survivability pzgrens can stand upto to vetted rifles much better.And pzgrens do almost same dmg at long raneg as lmg grens,also if u charge pzgrens like u can LMG grens u'll likely get shredded(especially rifle flamers/commandoes),and they can attack on the move -being assault troops which grens are bad at -grens are horrible at meeting engagement and in constricted terrain.

If a osttruppen commander had tiger -you wouldn't see grens again.

Well you do realise that there is 1 commander with Ostruppen, Tiger and CAS Loiter right?

Well you do realise that there is 1 commander with Ostruppen, Tiger and CAS Loiter right?

I guess he is playing some kind of different game to be honest...

The direct counter to UKF is prostruppen or CAS cheese. Fighting them to the late game is just increasing your chances of losing since they have better support abilities and tech units at that stage.

Well you do realise that there is 1 commander with Ostruppen, Tiger and CAS Loiter right?

6 CP relief infantry ability is not osttruppen,i'm talking about bringing them out as call-in right from the beginning .What good is relief infantry?largely useless.

6 CP relief infantry ability is not osttruppen,i'm talking about bringing them out as call-in right from the beginning .What good is relief infantry?largely useless.

Well this is just my opinion, and Im only doing 1v1 OKW and 2v2 Axis atm so this might not be relevant. But, since I consider 6 CP as mid game and might need some meat shield if my early game blows to pudding, I theoretically could use a 90 munitions for 3 free ostruppen meatshield squad with little bleeds. this is also assuming that the feat is perfectly executed. careful rush of your 2 pios squad and lose 2 men on each squad (or when you expect a huge clash) will summon the 1st squad, then its easier since ostruppen have 6 men squad and they are squisshy meaning the next 4 guys dead is imminent, and voila another ostruppen. since it only has like 60 sec active time, by the time you get the 2nd osttrup there usuually only 20 sec remains, if you dont want to gamble on the arrival time of next ost, u can use the global sprit abillity to rush ur ost to death (without wiping the whole squad ofc). this whole maneuver would roughly cost you 130 muni. a fair trade for 3 units of cheap and efficient mid game bolster to be honest.

assuming you have hold out with 1 fuel 1 muni and some connected points and not completely blown to stone age until mid game, this should help you maintain presence mid game with either 1 piv/stug and stall till tiger.

the bad thing about this ostrup method is if you misscalculated on how much your pios could take a beating leaving 1 or worst 2 squad of em dead, as its a rather risky maneuver, but to me is well worth the risk (as its do or die anyway) and its long arse 120 sec cooldown.

choosing early ostruppen with an expert usf player would also inevietebly warn the usf to just use AI. choosing this 'unorthodox' doctrine would not alert your usf foes about your doctrine until you either purchase the g43 (could be masked as other doct as in elite) or when u use global sprint (this is less likely to happen coz, no almost no one use em tbh)

just my opinion all right

I have never seen relief infantry used to win games in any casts from like last year.Skill is unused.

Poor USA have litlle to no counter to ostruppen spam with commad bunker lot of S-mines and tellers , mgs and flame haftrack.
They simply cannot move where they want and smoke wont help them.

But i think its fine , pople just need to adapt a bit , otheer is not weak , only people does not know how to use ostheer cheese properly

It's a different playstyle that scales pretty poorly. Works for early game aggression well enough I suppose.

I have found Soviet Maxim Spam to Berlin (supposed to be for 4v4) works well against a heavy Ostruppen start.
Just get in cutoff buildings, support them, and it destroys their map control pretty effectively, since they have no grenades and have terrible DPS out of cover. T1 Mortars (or any indirect fire, for that matter) can't damage units in buildings effectively right now (they directly damage the building instead).
Once you've got decent map control, they can't roll out a P4, and even if they do, you have access to the ZiS-3, which you should have already bought for its barrage ability.

Poor USA have litlle to no counter to ostruppen spam with commad bunker lot of S-mines and tellers , mgs and flame haftrack.
They simply cannot move where they want and smoke wont help them.

But i think its fine , pople just need to adapt a bit , otheer is not weak , only people does not know how to use ostheer cheese properly

im always astonished how axis players are not able to keep up with the meta while allys are on point with their cheese

im always astonished how axis players are not able to keep up with the meta while allys are on point with their cheese

I can tell you why it is like this.

Allies have like 4 viaable builds max , in case of usa only 3 and in case of brits 2
while with ostheer you can experiment with so many thinks including double sniper , stuka cheese , mine spam , mg spam into panzergren spam , osthruppen and halftrack , gren spam and SCAS cheese , Elite troops normal build order - mg , 2 gren , sniper , 222 panzergren , pak , stug , p4 tiger ace ..... and many more like otruppen flametrack rush , mgs and snipers and always lot of tellers.

While USA can go 3 thinks
1.rifle spam into liehtenaount into sherman rush - weak right now
2.rifle spam iton linear tech with lot of vehicles and pressure - stonrg right now
3.rifle spam into stuart and howie - meta now
You can slighly improve your style with flamerifleelite.co spam or engineer demo chesse or 2lmgrifles.rambos or get m10 crush.
recon company ( )

Russians:
tier 1 + guards into quad
tier2 + shocks into fast t70
cons spam into fast t70

its alway the same only you can chose diferent vehicle , sniper out of meta , now its cosnpsma or maxim spam


UKF
try to get snipers and then fast tank or go cancer pit an stall in for churchill (not many thinks in meta right now because some units are still a lot better than other units)