Does suppression need a buff

Hi all,

So, we all know the propensity of late game, upgraded infantry to shred hmg squads in their way, even if suppressed. Or at least kill the gunner so quickly that they can wipe the remaining member(s) before getting pinned, while suppressed.

So I thought: why not increase the debuff applied by suppression i.e. reduce dmg output even more. To clarify: I'm not asking for quicker suppression or pinning. But for suppression to be a bigger debuff to dmg output.

As the game has updated since release, infantry lethality has increased and hmgs have seen an incoming dmg increase. Which are not bad changes imo. Just saying that the suppression debuff needs to be realigned with the increased dmg output of infantry.

I believe this is critical because,

1) As the match progresses, hmg teams become faster at suppressing, but suppression itself remains as is even though infantry lethality and long range dmg output tends to increase. (so vetted infantry is in a better position relative to vetted hmgs; as compared to vanilla infantry position relative to vanilla hmg.

2) Position of vet, upgraded infantry is immensely superior to a fresh hmg, such as the one you build and/or recrew after the last one got stolen/killed respectively. Better vet shouldn't change the role of infantry vis a vis hmgs. It'd be a bit like saying, (exaggerated example) ok sniper is vet now, so all snipers should get ap rounds to deal with those pesky scout cars at vet3.

Please vote.

I can agree with this idea. Suppressed units should not be able to do much. I would suggest removing suppressed units ability to use grenades (ie. smoke, rifle grenades, molos, etc.) and a further accuracy decrease.

BTW, I accidentally hit no, so you can count one of those noes as a yes :}

Right now suppression is already pretty harsh. Accuracy drops to 25%, cooldown and reload times increase by 400%. If it gets any worse, suppressed units will be completely helpless, as if they were pinned outright.

The main intended debuff of suppression is being forced to the ground, unable to maneuver beyond a slow crawl.

This may be the first ever poll on coh2.org with non-bias options

Right now suppression is already pretty harsh. Accuracy drops to 25%, cooldown and reload times increase by 400%. If it gets any worse, suppressed units will be completely helpless, as if they were pinned outright.

The main intended debuff of suppression is being forced to the ground, unable to maneuver beyond a slow crawl.

Idk if thats true anymore. See infantry dmg output was given a flat 15% increase across the board. And hmg crew get 25% incoming dmg from small arms. Problem is when you build a new mg in late game, its practically pointless until you can recrew it, and even then you have to pray to rng gods that it survives to vet. Nowadays, 4 out of 5 factions have lmg heavy infantry options as their go-to choice. Suppressed units aren't helpless, they can still nade, crawl and cap.

Basically i'm suggesting this because late-game, suppression isn't punishing enough. And I don't want an increase to the speed of suppression. Just make it more powerful.

Idk if thats true anymore. See infantry dmg output was given a flat 15% increase across the board. And hmg crew get 25% incoming dmg from small arms. Problem is when you build a new mg in late game, its practically pointless until you can recrew it, and even then you have to pray to rng gods that it survives to vet. Nowadays, 4 out of 5 factions have lmg heavy infantry options as their go-to choice. Suppressed units aren't helpless, they can still nade, crawl and cap.

Basically i'm suggesting this because late-game, suppression isn't punishing enough. And I don't want an increase to the speed of suppression. Just make it more powerful.

Perhaps the problem is LMGs

Just increase suppression when there are more then 3 squads in a blob, make it like an aura. Also, there was a solution about hmg gunner death in kappa patch.

Perhaps the problem is LMGs

Perhaps, but removing them isn't really an option at this point. Two factions (ostheer, ukf) are modeled on infantry being better at long range and the lmgs are a critical component of that. A third (okw) has close links to lmgs cause of obers.

Have updated OP to better reflect the intent of my proposed change

Just increase suppression when there are more then 3 squads in a blob, make it like an aura. Also, there was a solution about hmg gunner death in kappa patch.

I think there was some mechanic implemented which punished blobbing, or is there something similiar already on coh2?

+1 To LMGs being the problem (or at least a part of it). LMGs seem to have a high probability of lasering down the gunner leading to OPs description. Maybe use target tables to reduce/eliminate the 25% recc. accuracy boost from LMGS?

I don't think buffing suppression is the answer as I fear it would place too much early game emphasis on MG42s and/or Maxim spam.

I think there was some mechanic implemented which punished blobbing, or is there something similiar already on coh2?

Its called DEMO

I don't think buffing suppression is the answer as I fear it would place too much early game emphasis on MG42s and/or Maxim spam.

I agree I am concerned with that, which is why I put this up here, so every one can contribute (ty btw). If I had a complete solution I'd have posted it.

I know it will make hmg more powerful but my reasoning is thus: in early game finishing off an hmg by a frontal Yolo rush while suppressed isn't really happening anyway barring exceptional circumstances e.g. low health om hmg etc. So it shouldn't have a big impact in that regard.

Its called DEMO

Sure we can give demos to pios/sturms. Guess that could be a soft alternative.

I think there was some mechanic implemented which punished blobbing, or is there something similiar already on coh2?

Yes hmgs do more dmg per squad/entity (not sure which). I'm not advocating for any change in that regard. What I want is for suppressed squads to do less dmg. Less than they do now I mean.

Just increase suppression when there are more then 3 squads in a blob, make it like an aura. Also, there was a solution about hmg gunner death in kappa patch.

Suppression already does increase when facing blobs. Which makes the hmg suppress and pin faster. But it doesn't make the suppression effect stronger. Which is what I'm talking about.

maybe for the mg team. have the gun being operated like a team, by 2 soldiers so if one dies theres another to take his place immediately. that way the mg doesnt get slaughtered straight away and always has somebody firing it. or/and give the mg a shield like at guns so it has some cover?

maybe have suppressed infantry automatically move away from the mg, or whatever is suppressing them? or at least lose direct control of the squad or squads movements, temporarily? that way u can only throw a grenade from the squad is and not be able to crawl closer to throw it.

Suppression cuts down DPS roughly to 25-20%. I'll say thats pretty huge.

What i would change is decreasing ability range by 33% to 66%. It's pretty simple; i can throw a grenade way further when i'm standing up rather than crawling trying to not get hit by bullets. This should also account for veterancy buffs.

That's a good solution to try elchino

Suppression cuts down DPS roughly to 25-20%. I'll say thats pretty huge.

What i would change is decreasing ability range by 33% to 66%. It's pretty simple; i can throw a grenade way further when i'm standing up rather than crawling trying to not get hit by bullets. This should also account for veterancy buffs.

+1 I'd rather have that in any case and I know we have requested it in the past too, let's hope relic listens.

The nading isn't my primary concern (though I fully support your proposal), it's that, late game, suppression doesn't reduce dmg output enough vis a vis vet, upgraded infantry especially lmg infantry. They're able to finish off an hmg even while suppressed. You don't even need a full on blob. 2 vet 3 rifles with 4 lmgs will do it frontally. I know cause ive killed full health maxims with 2xlmg grens frontally. Which, in turn, makes blobbing better than tactical, well thought assaults in nearly all cases except the pro players. (Keep in mind that hmg veterancy includes no received accuracy bonuses)

I don't want hmg crews to become more durable though cause that will make flanking difficult, and iirc the bonus accuracy against hmg and mortar crews was made exactly to dicourage replacement of core infantry with hmgs.

Which is all fine by me. Hence my proposition to buff the effect of suppression, make it reduce dmg output more. It doesn't have to be a very strong buff, I bet even a slight change would be an improvement.