CoH2 Day 1 DLC why I think it's "pay to win"
25 Jun 2013, 12:35 PM
#1
1 
Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6
What do you think of the views I've expressed here?
Embedding doesn't seem to working? try this link.
Master League - CoH's tournament player ranking system.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
25 Jun 2013, 13:56 PM
#2
Posts: 480
Not that I disagree with any of the points, nor am I a huge fan of the purchaseable commanders but cf. Tales of Valor... which granted entirely new units rather than just reconfigurations of current commander abilities. Some of which units were essential to certain strategies and the metagame (not to mention the *way* out of line Staghound).
Expansions have less granularity than DLC but I'm not sure that's inherently bad. My main concern is whether there's going to be a power creep in the DLC but I think we're going to have to wait and see on that.
Expansions have less granularity than DLC but I'm not sure that's inherently bad. My main concern is whether there's going to be a power creep in the DLC but I think we're going to have to wait and see on that.
25 Jun 2013, 14:10 PM
#3
1 
Posts: 4559 | Subs: 2
Fixed it for you A_E
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25 Jun 2013, 15:06 PM
#4
Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5
It's pay to win if the purchasable content gives you an obvious advantage. Currently, that isn't the case. All the purchasable content does right now is give you variety, since the commanders that are included with the base game are still the best commanders for competitive play.
25 Jun 2013, 15:10 PM
#5
Posts: 150
I agree, and since I cancelled my pre-order I have no regrets. The game is PURE SHIT, whoever says otherwise is either desilusional or plays one game a week.
I am so very against DLC's, in any game. But I would have made an exception with CoH2, because you know, vCoH has been the game that I've played the most in my life. However, given the way Relic has been doing things, for example: no key features at lauch, such as spectator mode(I mean, cmon, it's 2013 Relic), no chat system equivalent to what it was in vCoH, casual gameplay.. etc etc, the game just lost my intereset and I'm mad as fuck everytime I think about it.
I am not gonna buy this game neither I'm gonna support it. Fuck you Relic.
I am so very against DLC's, in any game. But I would have made an exception with CoH2, because you know, vCoH has been the game that I've played the most in my life. However, given the way Relic has been doing things, for example: no key features at lauch, such as spectator mode(I mean, cmon, it's 2013 Relic), no chat system equivalent to what it was in vCoH, casual gameplay.. etc etc, the game just lost my intereset and I'm mad as fuck everytime I think about it.
I am not gonna buy this game neither I'm gonna support it. Fuck you Relic.
¯\_(ツ )_/¯
25 Jun 2013, 15:14 PM
#6
1 Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6
"It's pay to win if the purchasable content gives you an obvious advantage. Currently, that isn't the case. All the purchasable content does right now is give you variety."
Variety of tactics usable is a distinct advantage. You deploy with three chosen commanders, some of which your enemy can't deploy with.
Variety of tactics usable is a distinct advantage. You deploy with three chosen commanders, some of which your enemy can't deploy with.
Master League - CoH's tournament player ranking system.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
25 Jun 2013, 15:20 PM
#7
17 
Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3
I don't know about you, but I enjoy being able to deploy my massive personal wealth to have all the pipe-smoking, monocle-wearing crayon-doodles at my disposal.
25 Jun 2013, 15:24 PM
#8
1 Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6
Oh yeah don't get me wrong, the other side of the coin is the
"haha plebeian look at the paint I'm licensed to use on my armoured cavalry. You can not paint your tanks the same colour as mine, and therefore I am superior!"
"haha plebeian look at the paint I'm licensed to use on my armoured cavalry. You can not paint your tanks the same colour as mine, and therefore I am superior!"
Master League - CoH's tournament player ranking system.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
25 Jun 2013, 15:36 PM
#9
Posts: 915
Its only going to get worse. Not better.... I will def buy coh2 bt as far as dlc goes, ill stay away until a hastily unbalanced expansion is put together, then ill buy that.
Decent rant btw A_E. No trolling
Decent rant btw A_E. No trolling
25 Jun 2013, 16:00 PM
#10
Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5
"It's pay to win if the purchasable content gives you an obvious advantage. Currently, that isn't the case. All the purchasable content does right now is give you variety."
Variety of tactics usable is a distinct advantage. You deploy with three chosen commanders, some of which your enemy can't deploy with.
But you don't get new abilities with those new commanders, just different combinations of abilities. And it's hardly an advantage when those combinations of abilities are vastly inferior to the combinations of abilities that are accessible to every person who purchased the game.
25 Jun 2013, 16:01 PM
#11
4 Posts: 951
Point not found: the best Axis Commander in the game at the moment isn't DLC.
25 Jun 2013, 16:06 PM
#12
Posts: 934
Yeah it ain't pay to win at the current stage. However if a new unit is emerges for DLC only and it is similiar in nature to how a Staghound impacts 2.602, then yeah we got some issues.
Until then just enjoy CoH2, worry about that shit in the future!
Until then just enjoy CoH2, worry about that shit in the future!
25 Jun 2013, 16:13 PM
#13
4 Posts: 951
I don't think Relic can win. Unless all DLC units are pointlessly under-powered the whiner's chorus will bleat 'pay-to-win.'
Edit: I'm not saying A_E is a member of the chorus but FFS the entitlement vibe is strong atm elsewhere on the board. DLC is a fact of life, RTS or no RTS. It's like arguing about the death of the typewriter or those new-fangled carbon golf clubs.
A_E's faux-shock at the concept of paying for stuff that other people don't have is amusing. How else do you think Relic will support a six-year-plus game cycle so you can play this game in the future? If XPs were an optimal method of doing this then I'm sure they would, but the vCoH grognards (of which, incidentally, I am one having been playing since 2007) still hate on the vCoH Xps anyhow.
Tournaments can have strict rules that prohibit certain commanders. The purity fetish of the competitive community will remain unsullied.
The rest of us, who enjoy this game on a number of different levels, can then got on and have *fun*
Rant over.
Edit: I'm not saying A_E is a member of the chorus but FFS the entitlement vibe is strong atm elsewhere on the board. DLC is a fact of life, RTS or no RTS. It's like arguing about the death of the typewriter or those new-fangled carbon golf clubs.
A_E's faux-shock at the concept of paying for stuff that other people don't have is amusing. How else do you think Relic will support a six-year-plus game cycle so you can play this game in the future? If XPs were an optimal method of doing this then I'm sure they would, but the vCoH grognards (of which, incidentally, I am one having been playing since 2007) still hate on the vCoH Xps anyhow.
Tournaments can have strict rules that prohibit certain commanders. The purity fetish of the competitive community will remain unsullied.
The rest of us, who enjoy this game on a number of different levels, can then got on and have *fun*
Rant over.
25 Jun 2013, 16:18 PM
#14
Posts: 65
DLC units can be made to clone or swap out existing units. New character models for troops for instance. Those kinds of things wouldnt effect balance.
25 Jun 2013, 16:28 PM
#15
4 Posts: 951
The game isn't balanced now FFS, likely never will be. CoH2 needs at least a year for the meta-wheel to turn.
25 Jun 2013, 16:43 PM
#16
1 Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6
"A_E's faux-shock" - why would I do that, it's not like I get more than 500 YouTube views, I genuinely am quite annoyed that they bothered to split thte commanders up, when they're made of the same units and abilities.
"How else do you think Relic will support a six-year-plus game cycle"
With the full price of release? It's not uncommon...
"How else do you think Relic will support a six-year-plus game cycle"
With the full price of release? It's not uncommon...
Master League - CoH's tournament player ranking system.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
25 Jun 2013, 17:09 PM
#17
4 Posts: 951
"How else do you think Relic will support a six-year-plus game cycle"
With the full price of release? It's not uncommon...
So you expect to pay forty-odd quid for six years (plus) of stable, consistent online support with *no* monthly subscriptions or DLC?
See what I say about entitlement issues?
Relic isn't a charity. If, as you say on your video, CoH is your hobby then support it. That means investing some money in it occasionally.
25 Jun 2013, 17:16 PM
#18
1 Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6
So you expect to pay forty-odd quid for six years (plus) of stable, consistent online support with *no* monthly subscriptions or DLC?
See what I say about entitlement issues?
Relic isn't a charity. If, as you say on your video, CoH is your hobby then support it. That means investing some money in it occasionally.
I personally bought collectors edition. As I felt after paying £6 for ToV they deserved it. I am more than happy to buy a lot of DLC, and I will do, especially for new stuff later down the line, not the same IP but in a different order. The current Day one reconfigured commanders is an instant put off, and made me annoyed.
Master League - CoH's tournament player ranking system.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
GCS2.ORG - All info on the fan funded mega tourney I organised.
YouTube.com/AECoH - casts, analysis, and tournament gameplay.
25 Jun 2013, 17:29 PM
#19
Posts: 915
Why pay for commanders when they are just reconfigs of the old ones with no new abilities? That alone seems like a huge rip to me, especially since they advertised it like it was going to be something cool you get with the 100 $ CE... Like I said... only going to get worse. Id rather get a whole lot more skins then those half asses commanders with my 100 $.
25 Jun 2013, 17:57 PM
#20
Posts: 25
Relic assured us, any DLC would not be pay to win. Multiple times. Over and over. And only of cosmetic nature, which would not affect gameplay. I don't remember who said it or the exact wording, but it felt like a promise to me. Something like saving playtime to unlock stuff earlier. Something like they could not stress it enough and we couldn't be surer of it or they wouldn't lose any sleep over it or something. Maybe Quinn Duffy said something like that? I don't know.
So if someone buys a commander that another person doesn't have that gives even the slightest advantage, may it just be some surprise new ability that is easy to counter, if you know how to, or gives the possibility of a combination that works better with some weird strategy, then this makes it pay-to-win and Relic is full of shit. Not that it matters, since Coh2 is a shit game in the first place, compared to its predecessor.
So if someone buys a commander that another person doesn't have that gives even the slightest advantage, may it just be some surprise new ability that is easy to counter, if you know how to, or gives the possibility of a combination that works better with some weird strategy, then this makes it pay-to-win and Relic is full of shit. Not that it matters, since Coh2 is a shit game in the first place, compared to its predecessor.
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