Petition to give OKW a non-doctrinal MG

Right now OKW is the weak

How can you say this, being a highly ranked OKW player? Wouldn't that suggest that any deficiencies are more down to individual skill rather than the faction itself then?

The mind boggles...

1. The kubel rarely lasts past 5 minutes; mid to lategame, it gets basically 1 shotted. Even if it does, it's generally not worth the huge amount of micro it takes to keep it useful.

Still devastating in early game if used properly.

3. None of those of options have the combination of being mobile, scalable, and the AOE of an actual mg unit.

You want an excellent Hmg and forward bases?

I don't care about balance, when the first thing I address is the fact that OKW is underperforming.

Ok

How can you say this, being a highly ranked OKW player? Wouldn't that suggest that any deficiencies are more down to individual skill rather than the faction itself then?

The mind boggles...

If you've actually played 1s, you'd see how they are at a disadvantage. This is a general consensus among most of the high level players I've played. Further, coh2chart.com also shows that on average, OKW wins almost 20% less than allied factions in 1s. This clearly is not limited to individual skill.

Learn to use the kubelwagon effectively.

Simple as that.

Learn to use the kubelwagon effectively.

Simple as that.

Kubelwagons don't scale into the late game. Maybe if you read the post and the arguments, you'd understand my point of view.

swap Kubel with MG34 nerf other stuff how about that? or does everyone want the easy way out. Even in real life the easy way out doesnt work.

@Hat

I never said the kubel was bad. The Kubel is fine in the early game.

At the point where the combination of MG + Forward HQ isn't unbalanced now, there's no reason it would be more unbalanced if it wasn't doctrinal.

Also good job taking my last line out of context, thats cute.

If you've actually played 1s, you'd see how they are at a disadvantage. This is a general consensus among most of the high level players I've played. Further, coh2chart.com also shows that on average, OKW wins almost 20% less than allied factions in 1s. This clearly is not limited to individual skill.

I've played 166 1v1s as OKW (granted that I haven't played them in about a month or so) and 200+ 2v2s as OKW. Last time I checked my 1v1 ranking for OKW was about 500, before the leaderboard started hiding ranks after 2 weeks.

Its a mix of both individual skill and minor issues. I can't see non-doc MGs combined with T0 AT from raketens and schrek Volks being a balanced combo tbh. Or if a non-doc MG was added to OKW, USF would HAVE TO receive a mortar in T0.

Kubelwagons don't scale into the late game. Maybe if you read the post and the arguments, you'd understand my point of view.

If you micro them properly, they can survive for a very long time. Use their mobility and vet 1 detection to your advantage. Keep them protected by mines and raketenwerfers so they don't get bumrushed by vehicles. They can dodge bazookas all day and if you have a mechanized command you don't even have to manually repair them.

They'll probably die eventually, but it's worthwhile to replace them here and there and there's a reason OKW can salvage vehicle wrecks... No different than replacing machine gun crews when they die.


There's also flak halftracks and ISG's to suppress stuff in the mid to late game. Not to mention the panzer command.

I've played 166 1v1s as OKW (granted that I haven't played them in about a month or so) and 200+ 2v2s as OKW. Last time I checked my 1v1 ranking for OKW was about 500, before the leaderboard started hiding ranks after 2 weeks.

Its a mix of both individual skill and minor issues. I can't see non-doc MGs combined with T0 AT from raketens and schrek Volks being a balanced combo tbh. Or if a non-doc MG was added to OKW, USF would HAVE TO receive a mortar in T0.

Why would a t0 mg be imbalanced? Ostheer already has this, and it's not imbalanced. Further, it's already a doctrinal option at 1 cp so it's clearly not imbalanced now. The only thing would change if MG's are not doctrinal is that players don't have to choose between call in infantry and mgs.

Why would this necessitate a t0 mortar? USF can already handle OST which has a t0 mg, and there's no major imbalance in that matchup. I would recommend giving OKW a try at this point.

If you micro them properly, they can survive for a very long time. Use their mobility and vet 1 detection to your advantage. Keep them protected by mines and raketenwerfers so they don't get bumrushed by vehicles. They can dodge bazookas all day and if you have a mechanized command you don't even have to manually repair them.

They'll probably die eventually, but it's worthwhile to replace them here and there and there's a reason OKW can salvage vehicle wrecks... No different than replacing machine gun crews when they die.


There's also flak halftracks and ISG's to suppress stuff in the mid to late game. Not to mention the panzer command.

I'm not arguing they can't survive; I know how to use a kubel. And most kubels don't last loger than 7ish minutes, especially when literally every unit becomes an existential threat. I'm arguing that it's not consistent enough, and it's almost impossible to micro more than 1 effectively in the mid-late game. There's almost never a reason to rebuild them.

The flaktrack has been severely indirectly nerfed by SU T3, AEC, and USF staurt/AAHT, and the 50% hp bug. It's ot effective.

ISG's can't doe AOE suppression in the same way a mg can.

Signed.

With a side note though: it won't be good for OKW to have access on 2 supression platforms (one mobile, one static). Imagine for instance what will happen if we simply switch between kubel and mg34.
Mg34, being a stock unit, will be built almost every game. Chosing one doctrine with kubel, that would give you in eraly game 2 suppression platforms - one static, one mobile - that could give you a to important advantage.
Of course I am aware that you can do this today too, if choosing an MG34 doctrine, but the phenomenon will be so much spread if we make mg34 non doctrinal and just switch the 2 units between them.

So my side note is in fact: make Mg34 a stock unit - in hq or med truck (most appropriate in hq), make kuble doctrinal in luftwaffe and fortifications, BUT remove supression from kubel, give it ability to decap and cap territory and increase its DPS with a small margin to make it still viable in early infantry confrontations.

I think that making MG34 a stock unit would be the safest way to change OKW because this way we won't have to change volks AI performance.

Why would a t0 mg be imbalanced? Ostheer already has this, and it's not imbalanced. Further, it's already a doctrinal option at 1 cp so it's clearly not imbalanced now. The only thing would change if MG's are not doctrinal is that players don't have to choose between call in infantry and mgs.

Why would this necessitate a t0 mortar? USF can already handle OST which has a t0 mg, and there's no major imbalance in that matchup. I would recommend giving OKW a try at this point.

If you don't see why a T0 HMG would break the balance, can't help you.

I give you a hint, it is the same reason doctrinal Mg34 is behind Cp1 and has low suppression capacity.

If you don't see why a T0 HMG would break the balance, can't help you.

I give you a hint, it is the same reason doctrinal Mg34 is behind Cp1 and has low suppression capacity.

Lol alright, next time you might want to make an actual argument.

Signed.

With a side note though: it won't be good for OKW to have access on 2 supression platforms (one mobile, one static). Imagine for instance what will happen if we simply switch between kubel and mg34.
Mg34, being a stock unit, will be built almost every game. Chosing one doctrine with kubel, that would give you in eraly game 2 suppression platforms - one static, one mobile - that could give you a to important advantage.
Of course I am aware that you can do this today too, if choosing an MG34 doctrine, but the phenomenon will be so much spread if we make mg34 non doctrinal and just switch the 2 units between them.

So my side note is in fact: make Mg34 a stock unit - in hq or med truck (most appropriate in hq), make kuble doctrinal in luftwaffe and fortifications, BUT remove supression from kubel, give it ability to decap and cap territory and increase its DPS with a small margin to make it still viable in early infantry confrontations.

I think that making MG34 a stock unit would be the safest way to change OKW because this way we won't have to change volks AI performance.

I could support this. I honestly don't really care about what happens to the kubel; it's more important to me that OKW needs an MG.

Don't remove the Kübel!

Instead, replace the doctrinal MG34 with the MG42. The MG34 becomes a stock unit in T2 or T3.

This! OKW has an MG 42, it's just unused. Put the MG 34 in stock and replace it with the MG 42 in doctrines.

I agree with a non-doctrinal MG

I support this

move the MG34 to the medic truck. Make the kubel 1-2 CP and be able to capture flags.

Give them mg 34 in mechanized tier , remove ISG supression , give them doctrinal mg 42 with 280 Mp price (because this is not ostheer and okw float munny). Many problem solved

Signed