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russian armor

Centaur

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3 Nov 2015, 23:36 PM
#41
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

It's fine.

It still does great damage to infantry and light vehicles. Can even do some damage to medium vehicles.


The decision between Cromwell/Centaur is still a very valid one.

3 Nov 2015, 23:38 PM
#42
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



historical fact run second to balance and design.

its current speed severely limit it survivability and the unit's usefulness.

beside, the centuar was slow for a british tank, but its liberty engine was still more powerful than the maybach used on the panzer4/ostwind. If we are going into reliability, it is going to open a whole new can of worm for the tiger and panther as well.

At least give the centaur similar speed as the ostwind/p4.



the thing is slower than a tiger. It can't run away from anything except for the super slow king tiger. If it doesn't have its overpowering dps then it needs the mobility to escape.


You are not right. Centaur used 340hp engine what gave it 12,1 hp/t while tiger used 690hp engine that gave it 12,8 hp/t. As a reference cromwell had 21,4 hp/t what gave it superior speed and acceleration. Centaur on the other hand was slighlty slower and more cumbersome than tiger however funny it seems to be for a crusier tank. This is due to the fact that tiger was quite fast for a ww2 heavy tank and that crusarder used really bad and outdated engine.
3 Nov 2015, 23:51 PM
#43
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

Well OP you and others were asking for a healthy damage nerf, most wanting it nerfed to ostwind levels despite the fact it's slow and has no blitz/smoke.

All that needed changing was the damage vs buildings
4 Nov 2015, 00:05 AM
#44
avatar of hannibalbarcajr

Posts: 503

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 16:11 PMUGBEAR


It sucks right now, no hard feelings, save the money and get a fast cromwell or a Churchill is much safer way to go.

I'm still using it with great success in all game modes. It simply isn't so amazing that it justifies spending no fuel on anything until you get the centaur at 10 minutes. Now I get T2 out with sniper and engineer like normal then tech 5 man squads and weapon rack before T3 and Centaur. I think it's pretty close to being spot on.
4 Nov 2015, 00:11 AM
#45
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29

I agree it pales in comparison to the Cromwell. Have you seen it vs squads in buildings? It barely touches them but does quite a lot of damage to the structure itself.
4 Nov 2015, 00:17 AM
#46
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



You are not right. Centaur used 340hp engine what gave it 12,1 hp/t while tiger used 690hp engine that gave it 12,8 hp/t. As a reference cromwell had 21,4 hp/t what gave it superior speed and acceleration. Centaur on the other hand was slighlty slower and more cumbersome than tiger however funny it seems to be for a crusier tank. This is due to the fact that tiger was quite fast for a ww2 heavy tank and that crusarder used really bad and outdated engine.


I am assuming we are talking real life?

Tiger actually had a "decent" p/w ratio. The 25 tonnes panzer4 with its 300 HP maybach engine only had a p/w ratio of ~12. Which means the centaur had around the same p/w as the tiger and the panzer4.

the cromwell with its 21.4 hp/t was one of the highest in the war. The crusader with ~17 hp/t was also one of the highest in the war as well. The centaur was merely "decent" by comparison but it's not a slow tank. Certainly it wasn't anywhere near the power the british would like for a cruiser tank.

of course that's not really represented in game. the centaur should have the same speed and acceleration as the ostwind/p4.
4 Nov 2015, 00:26 AM
#47
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

i keep seeing people mention the mobility of the centaur but i don't understand why it's an issue. i personally find it annoying and it does make it easier to overextend the tank (which is a user issue, not a vehicle issue) but it's still faster the infantry and it's still fast enough to get around.

can someone please explain to my why the mobility is bad?
4 Nov 2015, 00:28 AM
#48
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

i keep seeing people mention the mobility of the centaur but i don't understand why it's an issue. i personally find it annoying and it does make it easier to overextend the tank (which is a user issue, not a vehicle issue) but it's still faster the infantry and it's still fast enough to get around.

can someone please explain to my why the mobility is bad?


centaur top speed = 4.6, acceleration = 1.5

tiger top speed = 4.7, acceleration = 1.5

It's slower than the Tiger
4 Nov 2015, 00:35 AM
#49
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470



centaur top speed = 4.6, acceleration = 1.5

tiger top speed = 4.7, acceleration = 1.5

It's slower than the Tiger


which is kind of silly but i don't see why that's a balance issue. again, it just makes it easier to over extend the tank. there is of course also the question of why it's so slow in the first place (maybe because the damage was so high). but i don't find the unit under preforming at all from teh speed when i use it; i just make sure to keep it close to shot blockers.
4 Nov 2015, 00:48 AM
#50
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



which is kind of silly but i don't see why that's a balance issue. again, it just makes it easier to over extend the tank. there is of course also the question of why it's so slow in the first place (maybe because the damage was so high). but i don't find the unit under preforming at all from teh speed when i use it; i just make sure to keep it close to shot blockers.


The tiger is slow. but it's also one of the most durable tank and a powerful main gun.

the centaur by comparison have good anti-infantry capability but no where near the firepower or durability the tiger possess. This make a huge difference in their survivability as the tiger will easily scare away most enemy by its presence alone and have the toughness to survive getting shot at.

the centaur's durability is "okay" at best, but it lack the speed to ran away from most enemy.

Saying the speed is a safety to prevent over-extension is idiotic. Any smart or decent player can judge the situation and prevent himself from overextending. Only idiots would need a slow tank to prevent them from over extending.
4 Nov 2015, 00:54 AM
#51
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

Damage wise is fine, buff the speed sightly also whats it's hp compared to the ostwind?

The same HP as the ostwind,it's 640,but much more armor than the ostwind,the Centaur is 160/80,while the ostwind is 110/55.So I think it's fine the centaur is slower than the ostwind.
4 Nov 2015, 00:55 AM
#52
avatar of GundamZphyr7

Posts: 36

It could definitely be faster now that the damage has been nerfed to more reasonable numbers.

I only ever get it to vet 3 during games against bad players who don't get a stug against me.
4 Nov 2015, 00:58 AM
#53
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2015, 23:51 PMRollo
Well OP you and others were asking for a healthy damage nerf, most wanting it nerfed to ostwind levels despite the fact it's slow and has no blitz/smoke.

All that needed changing was the damage vs buildings

It has more armor (160/80) than ostwind(110/55).It means a Pz4 can't penetrate the centaur all the time. It's fine the centaur is slow.
4 Nov 2015, 01:11 AM
#54
avatar of Ace of Swords

Posts: 219

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 00:54 AMatouba

The same HP a the ostwind,it's 640,but much more armor than the ostwind,the Centaur is 160/80,while the ostwind is 110/55.So I think it's fine the centaur is slower than the ostwind.


Nice to know thanks, but yeah, it shouldn't be as fast as the ostwind, but sightly faster than it is right now would be perfect imo.
4 Nov 2015, 01:13 AM
#55
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470



The tiger is slow. but it's also one of the most durable tank and a powerful main gun.

the centaur by comparison have good anti-infantry capability but no where near the firepower or durability the tiger possess. This make a huge difference in their survivability as the tiger will easily scare away most enemy by its presence alone and have the toughness to survive getting shot at.

the centaur's durability is "okay" at best, but it lack the speed to ran away from most enemy.

Saying the speed is a safety to prevent over-extension is idiotic. Any smart or decent player can judge the situation and prevent himself from overextending. Only idiots would need a slow tank to prevent them from over extending.


indeed, the VI is a much better tank then the centaur, which is why it costs roughly twice as much.

for an AA/AI platform, the centaur is actually quite tough. it has medium tank hp, the best armour of the group, and very good damage. its durability is worse then a med tank overall but it also costs less then a med tank and has much worse AT capabilities.

the tank that i find the hardest to over extend, from being on both ends, is the V because it's tough, very fast (particularly with blitz), and can get doctrinal smoke. by comparison the VI B, which is exceedingly tough, i often see players over extend. i find that speed (pathing factors into this) is one of the biggest factors in over extension.

with all that said, what do you think the speed on the centaur should be, roughly?
4 Nov 2015, 01:29 AM
#56
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



indeed, the VI is a much better tank then the centaur, which is why it costs roughly twice as much.

for an AA/AI platform, the centaur is actually quite tough. it has medium tank hp, the best armour of the group, and very good damage. its durability is worse then a med tank overall but it also costs less then a med tank and has much worse AT capabilities.

the tank that i find the hardest to over extend, from being on both ends, is the V because it's tough, very fast (particularly with blitz), and can get doctrinal smoke. by comparison the VI B, which is exceedingly tough, i often see players over extend. i find that speed (pathing factors into this) is one of the biggest factors in over extension.

with all that said, what do you think the speed on the centaur should be, roughly?


first of all, the centaur is still more expensive than the ostwind by 40 mp. 40 mp is big enough to be important. This mean that the centaur should be superior to the ostwind.

DPS the ostwind and centuar are about the same. Centaur wins points for consistence. The centaur have a advantage in durability, but the speed difference is huge. Huge enough that the centaur should be 280 mp 100 fuel.

just give it the same speed as the panzer 4, or lower the centaur's cost.
4 Nov 2015, 01:35 AM
#57
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

No. Sorry, but simply no.

The centaur still performs well. It is nowhere near the killing machine it was, and rightfully so. The only justification for a buff i hear is "it was nerfed", and that is a shitty excuse for a buff. It has a certain purpose and performs very well at that. Buffing units just because they've been nerfed is not how balancing works.
4 Nov 2015, 02:40 AM
#58
avatar of iTzDusty

Posts: 836 | Subs: 5

It's fine.

Making it faster would make it a mirror of the ost wind that performs better.

It still is an early tank with heavy field presence, I still get it before Cromwell ad long as I'm not on the back foot.
4 Nov 2015, 02:48 AM
#59
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

It's fine.

Making it faster would make it a mirror of the ost wind that performs better.


the centaur should be better, it's more expensive than the ostwind.

yes, 40 mp matter. Either buff the centaur's speed or lower the cost of the centaur.
4 Nov 2015, 03:40 AM
#60
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164



the centaur should be better, it's more expensive than the ostwind.

yes, 40 mp matter. Either buff the centaur's speed or lower the cost of the centaur.


nope. i'm sorry but 10-15 second longer wait does not warrant a straight up buff to a unit that is perfectly fine. especially since the IS reinforcement cost was reduced as well.
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