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CieZ's State of CoH 2 - November 1, 2015

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4 Nov 2015, 10:03 AM
#121
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 10:00 AMFul4n0


my tiger, my tiger ace and my king tigers can do that too, and in addition they can fight others tanks and targets...is that not fine?


Your tigers don't leave a DOT on the ground which forces AT to move and lacks the accuracy to hit and wipe AT guns quickly.
4 Nov 2015, 10:11 AM
#122
avatar of Ful4n0

Posts: 345

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 10:03 AMwuff


Your tigers don't leave a DOT on the ground which forces AT to move and lacks the accuracy to hit and wipe AT guns quickly.



Then, why do you want to reduce the HP croc instead of removing that DOT????? is not leaving the KV8 that DOT too???

what are the benefits to have That DOT in game?? just asking....just trying to undertand it.
4 Nov 2015, 11:10 AM
#123
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2015, 10:11 AMFul4n0



Then, why do you want to reduce the HP croc instead of removing that DOT????? is not leaving the KV8 that DOT too???

what are the benefits to have That DOT in game?? just asking....just trying to undertand it.


The KV-8 cannot sustain a frontal assault vs AT guns, it will eat up so much damage getting within range and likely get snared and destroyed.

The team weapons created to counter heavy tank rely on infantry, the croc kills infantry too fast while taking very little risk of damage since it is high armour and hp.
4 Nov 2015, 11:32 AM
#124
avatar of Ful4n0

Posts: 345

ok, thanks wuFF, much appreciated it.
5 Nov 2015, 17:22 PM
#125
avatar of Deca

Posts: 63


The abandon mechanic adds a small bit of RNG to the game. Whether you're in favor of this or not basically depends on how okay you are with RNG being a factor in the game. The mechanic might be better if it were made more consistent, but I don't think it's a bad mechanic strictly speaking. Taking over abandoned enemy vehicles was done in the actual war and adds a cool flavor element to the game.


Exactly. And if you want to be a anti-RNG fundamentalist, then where does it end? Shells that always penetrate, or never? War is hell, and chaotic. This is not Starcraft.
5 Nov 2015, 17:49 PM
#126
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Nov 2015, 17:22 PMDeca


Exactly. And if you want to be a anti-RNG fundamentalist, then where does it end? Shells that always penetrate, or never? War is hell, and chaotic. This is not Starcraft.


weak slippery slope argument...

abandon mechanic increases the chance of loss tow fold just because of RNG. two fold is way too much. like how plane crashes were rare but still got fixed because rare RNG causing game winning/losing shit in one sweep.
5 Nov 2015, 18:59 PM
#127
avatar of Deca

Posts: 63

Cannot compare with AI rng planecrashes.

If you think ultrarare abandoned vehicle cost you the game, then remember it will be the unlikely, but possible result of overextended tank movement without any support. Ie bad play.
5 Nov 2015, 19:18 PM
#128
avatar of Basilone

Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Nov 2015, 18:59 PMDeca
Cannot compare with AI rng planecrashes.

If you think ultrarare abandoned vehicle cost you the game, then remember it will be the unlikely, but possible result of overextended tank movement without any support. Ie bad play.

One of the skill sets that separates higher level players is better judgement on when to make risky plays, but when losing the tank sometimes gives it away to the other team it makes those plays a much less appealing option. I think your argument of always supporting your units being so called good play is pretty weak. Its more difficult to micro manage units over a wider area. I'm not saying supporting your units is for noobs, and there are definitely times to do it, but going all the way back to 2006 keeping everything together at all times has never been a hallmark of high level play.
5 Nov 2015, 19:47 PM
#129
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Nov 2015, 17:22 PMDeca


Exactly. And if you want to be a anti-RNG fundamentalist, then where does it end? Shells that always penetrate, or never? War is hell, and chaotic. This is not Starcraft.


Exactly. And if you want to be a pro-RNG fundamentalist, then where does it end? A dice roll at the start of the game that decides the winner? War is hell, not a boardgame.
5 Nov 2015, 19:50 PM
#130
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Nov 2015, 18:59 PMDeca
Cannot compare with AI rng planecrashes.

If you think ultrarare abandoned vehicle cost you the game, then remember it will be the unlikely, but possible result of overextended tank movement without any support. Ie bad play.


In the same way RNG planes got nerf in damage (not removed), abandoned mechanics can be reworked too.

-Make it so you need to finish repairs up to 50%
-Apply engine damage/destroy/inmobilize upon abandoned

Right now you have a 5% chance that the game screw you upon a vehicle engagement. AND it's not always about losing your tank, rather than the opponent saving theirs.
5 Nov 2015, 21:09 PM
#131
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Nov 2015, 17:22 PMDeca


Exactly. And if you want to be a anti-RNG fundamentalist, then where does it end? Shells that always penetrate, or never? War is hell, and chaotic. This is not Starcraft.


RNG is fine as long as:

1.It's risk vs reward.
2.You have control over it.

In most cases (like tank accuracy, penetration, etc) those two points are provided. You can consider the risks and hope for the best. But things like plane crashes and Abandoned vehicles are different. If there was a mechanic for manipulating Abandon mechanic, you could say it's fine. But it's totally random and has a huge impact. Plane crashes also punish you for using AA vehicles. So RNG is OK and is a signature of CoH series, but the amount and impacts are also important.
8 Nov 2015, 01:07 AM
#132
avatar of hannibalbarcajr

Posts: 503

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Nov 2015, 21:09 PMRMMLz


RNG is fine as long as:

1.It's risk vs reward.
2.You have control over it.

In most cases (like tank accuracy, penetration, etc) those two points are provided. You can consider the risks and hope for the best. But things like plane crashes and Abandoned vehicles are different. If there was a mechanic for manipulating Abandon mechanic, you could say it's fine. But it's totally random and has a huge impact. Plane crashes also punish you for using AA vehicles. So RNG is OK and is a signature of CoH series, but the amount and impacts are also important.

I go back and forth on the mechanic but one thing I like is it adds something in the back of your mind when you are pushing hard on a flank and your health is getting low. Do I push and finish off this retreating squad/tank and risk that I get abandoned next to my enemy base with no infantry around to recrew? Or do I pull back. The main thing is it does need critical damage to prevent grand theft tank and driving off with a perfectly fine engine. Also, I hate when a tank gets abandoned, recrewed and then shot right away and abandoned again. Sometimes 2x in a row. A recrewed vehicle:tank that gets hit without any repairs should be done.
8 Nov 2015, 03:18 AM
#133
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026


I go back and forth on the mechanic but one thing I like is it adds something in the back of your mind when you are pushing hard on a flank and your health is getting low. Do I push and finish off this retreating squad/tank and risk that I get abandoned next to my enemy base with no infantry around to recrew? Or do I pull back. The main thing is it does need critical damage to prevent grand theft tank and driving off with a perfectly fine engine. Also, I hate when a tank gets abandoned, recrewed and then shot right away and abandoned again. Sometimes 2x in a row. A recrewed vehicle:tank that gets hit without any repairs should be done.



Risking overextending in an enemy territory and losing a tank is one thing, but the arguably more common scenario is when somebody isn't overextending, when you shoot an enemy tank safely in their lines and they get abandoned. It's like a free get your tank back RNG which I think adds little/nothing good to the game. It used to be much worse in the Heavy tank spam days of yore when a Tiger or something getting abandoned was just the worst thing because Allies would have usually had to trade a tank for it in an even fight. It's more even now in the medium meta, but I still don't like it much.
8 Nov 2015, 08:22 AM
#134
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1


Snip


That's the problem right there. You don't know what is the risk you're taking. Losing the tank or giving it to the enemy? If there was a way to predict it, that would be better. But I would like to see it removed.



Snip


This is also a valid point, the simply recrew the tank and then shoot back at you. If they want to keep abandon mechanic, they need to implement these features:

1.Abandoned tank gets both "main gun destroyed" and "heavy engine damage"
2.About 30% of the original fuel cost
3.Only crewable by Engineer squads (Pios, Sappers, CEs, RETs or vehicle crew)

These would server the balance, and also have a small realistic elements.


9 Nov 2015, 08:22 AM
#135
avatar of Diogenes5

Posts: 269

This game just has a shit ton of game design flaws from its launch days. The developers focused more on adding new stuff just to add new stuff without any consideration whether it actually made the game interactive and fun. Deep Snow, the squishing of the UI into something entirely inferior to COH1, all the squad wipes EVEN IN HEAVY cover, the abandoned units, squad members having to wait for their squad leaders to move before moving themselves.

All of it sucks donkey balls and is deeply noninteractive and devalues skill. Some RNG is ok. COH 1 had this in a varying amoutn but not as bad as COH2.

Fundamentally they put in adding stuff just to be different without actually justifying whether it would be fun or improve the game in a meaningful way which is why the had to revert deep snow and decrease the rng. Even in its current state its too much.
9 Nov 2015, 08:38 AM
#136
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

This game just has a shit ton of game design flaws from its launch days. The developers focused more on adding new stuff just to add new stuff without any consideration whether it actually made the game interactive and fun. Deep Snow, the squishing of the UI into something entirely inferior to COH1, all the squad wipes EVEN IN HEAVY cover, the abandoned units, squad members having to wait for their squad leaders to move before moving themselves.

All of it sucks donkey balls and is deeply noninteractive and devalues skill. Some RNG is ok. COH 1 had this in a varying amoutn but not as bad as COH2.

Fundamentally they put in adding stuff just to be different without actually justifying whether it would be fun or improve the game in a meaningful way which is why the had to revert deep snow and decrease the rng. Even in its current state its too much.


Good read :) +1
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