OKW :Faction design Failure

Looking at this faction which is now spamming Leig's every game because basically its useless at everything else,we should look back at how it got here.
The basic weakness of this faction are crippling munition and fuel penalties.The design feature of this faction stated that this disadvantage would be compensated by 2 things -
1]Extremely powerful Units
2] 5-star veterancy

Now lets look at number 1 and the transformation of some of these once powerful units.

1.Sturmpio - Nerfed (mainly its range) .(subsequently improved a little,but is being proven again and again as incapable of saving volks from rifles/shocks/brits blobs).

2.Stuka Zu fuss - Nerfed

3.Obersoldaten - Nerfed into uselessness

4.King Tiger - Nerfed into relative non-use

Now coming to point 2 -
How many times do we see units with vet 4 and vet 5 except for volks in competitive games.Rarely.The veterancy costs are too high.The one unit that regularly could reach these vet levels (volks)had its veterancy effects nerfed.So basically vet 5 is more impressive on paper than in-game.

With its 2 main 'strengths' neutered while still being burdened by resource penalty the main premise of this faction no longer applies,as it has no tangible 'strengths' left to cover for its glaring weakness.Which is what is the cause of the current sate of faction)especially after upcoming leig crutch removal)

Maybe its time to convert the broken faction into a regular faction thats enjoyable to play.Eliminate the whole 'theme' thing that has failed.

Remove the whole vet 5 thing.Largely useless in competitive games.
Remove resource penalties.
Only problems to this would be too fast panther and king tiger.So -
Gate panther unlock in flak truck beyond another upgrade.
And Restrict King tiger to 1.While King tiger on field fuel penalty is back(66% fuel income).
Make small teching cost changes if necessary.
The inability to build caches can be kept as a sop to theme.

And you will have a competitive and enjoyable faction.

I'd like to see the vet 5 system, since it's great but for a lot of units with some decreased experience requirements. Obersoldaten gets well on vet 3+ and you can get them quite often. Stuka zu Fuss is still good, sturmpio is good.

Vet 4 obers can solo whole armies, getting them there is quite hard though.

Play more 1v1 and see the power of vet5 Obers and Falls.

IF u want a broken faction go play USF outside of 1v1's and try not to go rifle company.

Stumpios haven't been touched in terms of balance except to reduce their cost and reinforcement time.
Stuka needed to be brought in line with other units of its category as well as the time it can come out (6mins).
KT is ok and can soak up a lot of damage while also dishing it out.

If you remove resource penalties of OKW then all the prices for all other fuel Units needs to be changed as they are timed in response to when OKW gets certain units. Hence why the tier changes didn't effect OKW.

If anything OKW's flak HT could use a buff and a 10-20mp cost reduction on Obers.

STG ober vet 5 suppressing units is damn cool.

That being said, I dont play them. I like mines. USF needs mines..

Good day

Looking at this faction which is now spamming Leig's every game because basically its useless at everything else,we should look back at how it got here.
The basic weakness of this faction are crippling munition and fuel penalties.The design feature of this faction stated that this disadvantage would be compensated by 2 things -
1]Extremely powerful Units
2] 5-star veterancy

Now lets look at number 1 and the transformation of some of these once powerful units.

1.Sturmpio - Nerfed (mainly its range) .(subsequently improved a little,but is being proven again and again as incapable of saving volks from rifles/shocks/brits blobs).

2.Stuka Zu fuss - Nerfed

3.Obersoldaten - Nerfed into uselessness

4.King Tiger - Nerfed into relative non-use

Now coming to point 2 -
How many times do we see units with vet 4 and vet 5 except for volks in competitive games.Rarely.The veterancy costs are too high.The one unit that regularly could reach these vet levels (volks)had its veterancy effects nerfed.So basically vet 5 is more impressive on paper than in-game.

With its 2 main 'strengths' neutered while still being burdened by resource penalty the main premise of this faction no longer applies,as it has no tangible 'strengths' left to cover for its glaring weakness.Which is what is the cause of the current sate of faction)especially after upcoming leig crutch removal)

Maybe its time to convert the broken faction into a regular faction thats enjoyable to play.Eliminate the whole 'theme' thing that has failed.

Remove the whole vet 5 thing.Largely useless in competitive games.
Remove resource penalties.
Only problems to this would be too fast panther and king tiger.So -
Gate panther unlock in flak truck beyond another upgrade.
And Restrict King tiger to 1.While King tiger on field fuel penalty is back(66% fuel income).
Make small teching cost changes if necessary.
The inability to build caches can be kept as a sop to theme.

And you will have a competitive and enjoyable faction.

Lets do some fact checking.


1) Werent nerfed, they got a pretty nice survivability buff but a DPS nerf. But then they also got a nice reinforcement decrease.
2)Stuka was never nerfed. Lol wut?
3) Obers got a nice 10mp reinforce reduction last patch. They are pretty decent now.
4) KT is fine.


OKW will always be UP/OP because of the poorly designed feature of volks. Currently OKW has way too overpowering anti tank, mostly in the name of jagdpanzer, and shrecks on 5 man durable infantry is a terrible idea.

But OKW anti infantry is balls, which leads them to sucking in 1v1s. This is the main issue with OKW, they just get overrun by allied infantry blobs in the early-mid game.


Until volks shrecks is somehow removed and volks redesigned, OKW will have to stay this way.

Basically ur saying abandon this faction for now.However you didn't say anything about the central argument.With relative insignificant utility of vet 5 in competitive games and toning down of virtually every 'powerful' unit okw had at release how are these heavy penalties still justified?

Play less team games \thread

At this verry moment, OKW is in fact stronger than ostheer, because of the fact that they are consistent. Cheese or not cheese they somehow manage to hold the line throughout the game, in comparison to ostheer.
After patch, dunno, we will see.

I have never understood this whole vet 5 and resoruce penalty system. If you are messing with basic game's assumptions, it will never work.

• 100% income
  
• vet 3
  
• caches
  
• more expensive teching and upgrades (starting fuel 10, Med HQ 50F, Mech HQ 70F, Schwerer HQ 120F)
  
• no more locking down with schwerer (change flak for MG or some crapy AT gun a ka M42)
  
• JPIV moved to Mech HQ
  
• Luchs moved to Mech HQ
  
• Stuka moved do Schwerer HQ
  
• 251/17 moved to Med HQ
  
• need to tech all HQs (with 100% income and caches 11min Panther aint fun), Volks are able to equip PzSchreck or MP44.
  
  
  

If you ask me, since Relic wanted to base this faction off of the Armies that attacked the Ardennes, they should have had a manpower penalty rather than ammo and fuel.

i agree , buff the walking stuka , king tiger , obers , sturmtiger , sturm pioneers and buff mg 42 too plz , thx .

Iam also for a manpower penalty instead of fuel/munitions. This would decrease the amount of blobbing with OKW too.

A elite army is imho low in numbers but excellent equipped.

Iam also for a manpower penalty instead of fuel/munitions. This would decrease the amount of blobbing with OKW too.

A elite army is imho low in numbers but excellent equipped.

Okw would lose every game with a manpower penalty with the current state of how their infantry perform.

Okw would lose every game with a manpower penalty with the current state of how their infantry perform.

Something like the change I suggested, would of course require a complete faction overhaul/redesign.

The OKW does not feel like an elite army right now. But the problem is if it is going to feel like an Elite army then the spammable infantry is going to have to be locked at closely.

Many of the units you mention are not a problem, the only one is the KT which is still quite powerful. Buffs to the KT will make team games nearly unplayable since its power is felt most strongly there.

The stuka has never received a nerf (to my knowledge), only buffs or lateral changes actually.

Obers are ok, the goal here is to get them with vet. At vet 0 they are not terribly impressive for cost. Their cost might come down slightly.

Sturms aren't able to deal with blobs because they don't function in that fashion. They are assault troops right now. Blob control is left to suppression units which OKW basically doesn't have which is the problem not sturms.

I generally agree with Australian, if your plan is to normalize the faction caches and 100% income go hand in hand.

Are you guys kidding me? OKW can just field their overperforming infantry all game until king tiger arrives and finish the game.

All okw infantry is too good in comparison to any other factions, Volks are stupidly cheap and strong, and with shrecks they vet up super fast and becomes unstoppable. Sturms are great right now, they are kinda tricky to use, but when used right they are just amazing.

Obers are absurdly good, people that complain about them are straight up retards. And all other elite infantry are also so good in their roles.

Yeah, OKW need some serious overhaul, not more buffs, they are the strongest faction right now, and their manpower rates are absurd, It's really rare a game where you see a OKW not floating lots of manpower on the mid game.

I too would be in favor of an elite army if all their units became very deadly, but expensive. Okw should be the faction that has fewer units, but is punished heavily for losing them. I'd say most of their vehicles are fine, but a lot of their infantry would need to get buffs.

Playing OKW feels like your playing soviets with better tanks.

There's nothing to their 'early game aggression' other than spamming volks getting a kubel and praying your opponent isn't smart enough to utilize suppression mechanics against you.

Later on, getting an ober squad or two; You are just left with blobbing up or splitting and running around the map with quadruple shrecks or more trying to OHK enemy armor with them.

If you really want to be competitive and win most of the time you have to go scavenge doctrine. It is literally the best commander OKW have bar none. That's why I was so disappointed with feursturm because the hetzer costs the same as the ostwind and I just feel the OKW ostwind performs much better. And there's just no elite infantry callins in that commander as well. Just not viable against any of the meta builds you are going to be put up against in a serious match.

But yeah, it feels like OKW is just throwing as many men as you can in the grinder and having your forward retreat point close enough to the front. To keep running back and forth hoping to out attrition your enemy. No MG mechanics to use unless you go specific doctrines just makes them a bore to play compared to ostheer.

Luckily 4v4's have their own litter wunderwaffe kids who enjoy OKW simply because they are that easy and linear to play with. Just attack move up the front, and they feel like their ubermensch as they collectively cream their pants in the service of the reich. Unfortunately, some people think they should take attention on those types of games in order to balance it around them and well... here we are.